23 replies to this topic

[Berta]

This case shows how a service connected condition such as PTSD can cause disability and death.
The widow had private medical opinions and even two fairly negative VA medical opinions did include some support for the claim.

http://www.va.gov/ve...es1/0700083.txt

"The veteran's service-connected PTSD contributed to his
fatal lung cancer in that it played a material causal role in
his use of tobacco products after service. The veteran's use
of tobacco products caused the disease that is directly
linked to the veteran's demise"

"ORDER

Service connection for the veteran's cause of death is
granted, subject to the laws and regulations governing the
payment of monetary benefits"

[purple]

I'm sorry. But I have to strongly disagree. PTSD causing death by smoking??? Wow, that's a stretch. An adult has a choice whether or not to light up a ciggy. No one has forced that upon a person.

Adults need to take responsibilty for their own actions which they know have serious negative consequences like smoking, drinking & drugs. Everyone is very aware what self-medicating does.

[Pete53]

I saw and know many cigarette addicts who got their start in the military

[skunk]

well does that set a precedent . i mean copd ,bronchitis , emphezema,all
lung diseases should be secondary if you are a heavy smoker, and have
ptsd, mental disorders. i mean what goes for one should go for all.

[skunk]

well does that set a precedent . i mean copd ,bronchitis , emphezema,all
lung diseases should be secondary if you are a heavy smoker, and have
ptsd, mental disorders. i mean what goes for one should go for all.

what i am saying i have a claim for copd and claiming agent orange
as contributing factor , but i know they are probably say smoking
is the cause , i am 30% bi-polar panic attacks and ptsd. so why
cant i make the same claim copd secondary because my 30% sc
caused me to smoke too much due to my nerves.

[Berta]

You CAn claim that your resulting disability was caused by nicotine addiction due to a form of self medication.

But I suggest anyone filing this type of claim familiarize themselves with similiar claims at the BVA web site and also read over carefully Allen V. Principi.

"In Allen, the Federal Circuit held that 38 U.S.C. § 1110
permits a veteran to receive compensation for an alcohol or
drug abuse disability acquired as secondary to, or as a
symptom of, a veteran's service-connected disability. In
other words, section 1110 does not preclude compensation for
an alcohol or drug abuse disability secondary to a service-
connected disability, or use of an alcohol or drug abuse
disability as evidence of the increased severity of a
service-connected disability. Rather, the statute precludes
compensation only for (a) primary alcohol abuse disabilities,
and ( secondary disabilities (such as cirrhosis of the
liver) that result from primary alcohol abuse. The Federal
Circuit defined "primary" as meaning an alcohol abuse
disability arising during service from voluntary and willful
drinking to excess."
from:http://www.va.gov/vetapp03/Files/0317388.txt

While Allen does not cover smoking-this BVA decision clearly reveals what I mean :

http://www.va.gov/ve...es4/0828822.txt

The VA will attempt to deny a claim based on smoking habits yet- -with strong medical evidence- this can be overcome.

I know Vietnam vets got cigs with their C rats-my husband said they even got issued cold beers after firefights sometimes -the military itself started the smoking (and probabl;y alcohol addictions) of many many veterans.

Any addiction that -by medical evidence- can be associated with self medication of a SC mental disorder can have residuals that VA must SC under Allen V Principi.

[octdevildog]

While its somewhat a u did it to yourself, i was a smoker who quit because of headaches caused by my ptsd the nicotine would instantly bring on a migraine. I still want to smoke but know if i do my head will explode or it at least feels that way

[purple]

the military never made anyone smoke and drink.

ppl can always say no unless they physically forced and threatened to smoke and/or drink. i just don't buy it.

does this mean i can file claims for my excessive shopping due to stress from PTSD??? no. wouldn't dream of it. it's ridiculous.

[john999]

If the Army did not want soldiers to smoke why did they include them in C-rat packages. We were issued cigaretts and given access to cheap booze. The Army was contributing to the health problems of a generation of young men and women. Notice how many vets smoke as compared to the average person. Just go to the local VAMC and watch all those old and sick vets puffing away. Oh, and most Vietnam vets were exposed to illegal drugs on a daily basis. If you want your health ruined just join the Army. Shopping and spending excessively is a symptom of bi-polar disorder. The Army was like being dumped into a ghetto sewer.

[purple]

who knows why the ciggys were included, certainly none of us. my point is just because the ciggys and alcohol were around, some free, some cheap; doesn't mean anyone was forced to do it; which means it should not be rated as secondary to PTSD.

and no, i'm not bi-polar, but thanks anyway.

[john999]

I disagree with smoking not being possibly secondary to PTSD. If you are in combat and realize that you will probably not survive why not smoke if it relieves tension for a few minutes. If you are pretty certain you are going to be violently and horribly killed smoking seems like a minor vice as does drinking and taking drugs. Once addicted it is something else.

[purple]

i was pretty certain i was going to be violently and horrible killed while being raped on active duty; but i didn't resort to smoking and drinking....and i have PTSD. i've still never smoked or drank.

i don't believe there is a direct connection in fear of being killed and wanting to smoke and/or drink...and then later blaming that smoking and drinking on the PTSD.

[simple fly]

i thought this site was to help vets prove a claim,not to dispell any diagnosis or pretend to be an advocate of not filing a claim.purple,because you never picked up cigs or alcohol,does not mean that you did not have other symptoms or you would not be getting paid for ptsd.just because you don't suffer a particular symptom,please don't sound off on other vets that do.this is not your sounding board,it's a board to help vets..period.regardless of symptoms.
you have your 100%,now it's another vets right to try to get theirs,don't be a roadblock.

Edited by simple fly, 03 November 2008 - 07:57 AM.

[tagandbag]

I would like to say, it is very plausible, that tobbaco, drugs, alcohol, could be a secondary condition to PTSD. Even though I never considered, up until now, the full scope of the effects it has had on myself. I can remember starting to smoke cigs while in the nam, I think they sold for 1.25 a carton at the commisary. Also smoking pot and trying just about every substance after being in country a few months. Never did it before that. Remember one of the symptoms for PTSD, involves high risk behavior. After I was dicharged, I continued smoking cigs for 10 yrs or so and quit. Because I got tired of hackin up multi colored phlegm and smelling like an ashtray. But continued the recreational drug usage and lifestyle. It consumed my life practically for 20 yrs. It started as a thrill seeking adventure and eventually turned into a business of mass proportions. A lot of fun at first, then things became very serious and very stressfull. Then finally it all came tumbling down and paid the piper for close to 10 yrs. Did a lot of soul searching after that and had to dig deep. I lost everything and I finally hit bottom. I been slowly clawing my way back and has taken some time. I'm not writing this for sympathy. Just trying to convey some things that happened to me that I think were related to PTSD. I believe if I had not gone to Vietnam, I would have chosen a different path, not involving a high risk behavior. That would inevitably end in a total cluster of kaka. Anyways, chillin and life will be better and the weather is great in Fl..

T&B

[skunk]

on my 30%award for bi-polar the doctor clearly stated my bi-polar
accounted for substance abuse.

[simple fly]

one of the items on the check list is substance abuse. i just can't figure out why someone would say on this forum that it's not. that person should think a little more before offering any help.especially when that vet is drawing 100% for ptsd.jmho

[octdevildog]

If the Army did not want soldiers to smoke why did they include them in C-rat packages. We were issued cigaretts and given access to cheap booze. The Army was contributing to the health problems of a generation of young men and women. Notice how many vets smoke as compared to the average person. Just go to the local VAMC and watch all those old and sick vets puffing away. Oh, and most Vietnam vets were exposed to illegal drugs on a daily basis. If you want your health ruined just join the Army. Shopping and spending excessively is a symptom of bi-polar disorder. The Army was like being dumped into a ghetto sewer.

okay very good point, i did not come from that time frame. my MRE's had m&m's in them can i claim obesity because of that?

[Berta]

Although Allen V Principi doesnt mention smoking addictions- this important CAVC case states emphatically that if a veteran develops a disability from alcohol or drug use due to self medication of mental stress ( with medical nexus)(and maybe even due to pain factors for other SC conditions), the VA will secondarily SC the extent of disability their alcohol or drug addiction has caused.

There are factors to consider.

One of the first PTSD vets I met when I woprked at a Vet Center was so addicted to alcohol that he actually brought an open car of beer into my car when I gave him a ride to the PTSD Combat group meeting.
I had to kick him out of my car.
On another occasion (it was not unusually for us to get a take out of coffee and bring it into the meetings)
he sipped from a take out container until the vet next to him noticed it was beer and not coffee.

This vet, highly decorated and 100% PTSD,died right after I moved to NY. Cause of death cirrosis of liver due to alcoholism and no DIC for his wife and three small sons.
The VA had done all they could possibly do to help this vet stop drinking.That was fully documented in his VA med recs.
Unfortunately the wife had told the VA that he used Vietnam as an excuse for his drinking and drank heavily way before he even joined the service and went to Vietnam

Her DIC was denied due to willful misconduct of the veteran.

[purple]

i don't feel i'm being a "roadblock" to anyone's claim. i haven't told anyone to not submit a claim now have i?

i'm trying to interject what i feel is common sense and a sense of personal responsibility....responsibility for one's own actions.

it's just my opinion; i'm not forcing anyone to do anything. i feel the VA has opened up a HUGE loophole with this one...

[simple fly]

surely purple in your journey to get ptsd compensation you had to read from the following link.please do before posting again to vets trying to get compensation. your opinion has nothing to do with fact. the loophole is already open. if ptsd exist,you are not responsible for certain actions.they just happen.if they did not ,you and many more would not be getting squat.

http://www.mentalhea...onReactions.asp

Edited by simple fly, 03 November 2008 - 03:41 PM.

[john999]

Every see old films of WWII vets in combat. They always have a cigarette in their lips. Why? Because it gave them some relief from what was waiting for them. It killed them years later if they survived.

[purple]

simplefly,

in fact no, i've never seen that exact link...and no, didn't need it "in my journey to get ptsd compensation"; not sure why i would have?

and my opinion is just that, my opinion. i'm entitled to it-thank-you.

[simple fly]

i just don't think you can opine that abuse of alcohol or smoking is not part of ptsd and that vets should learn self control .this site is not for your opinion.it is for advice.and i think you owe every vet that has ptsd,drug,alcohol and excess smoking affliction from ptsd a big apology.it's for the doctors to sort the symptoms out and they have opined from a professional perspective that it is.
i feel that a moderator should have already piped in and tell you to not do that to my fellow vets. smoking,drinking,drugs,all part of ptsd and the vet has no control .that is medically proven.i am finished. please make this right.

[Stretch]

What one person did to cope, might not even be what I would use to cope and visa versa.

Well a University PHD says that smoking can be linked to PTSD.

http://www.hadit.com...showtopic=21211

http://dailyheadline...rk.edu/9986.htm

Take what you can and leave the rest.