20 replies to this topic

[Berta]

This change in policy could warrant a better EED for some AO Thailand veterans.




Source of pdf: Kurt Priessmann

Attached Files

•  Thailand new C& P & Bulletin Jan 2012.pdf   984.81K   123 downloads

[SP4RVN1971]

Thats great, thanks Berta. I hope that VA will try to find all these Vet's that serve in Thailand. But I know they will do their best to hide this!

[Computer Tech]

Thanks Berta. If I read the bulletin correctly my diabetes claim which I originally filed in Feb of 2008 then reopened in Oct of 2009 if approved by the VA will have an effective date of Feb 2008 and not Oct 2009.

Rick

[Berta]

BTW , Kurt Priessman is the source of this bulletin and yes I agree with your assessment of the proper EED. as February 2008.

[Computer Tech]

Kurt has been a great help to us Thailand vets, I talked with him a couple of years ago and he really helped me after my original claim for DMII and heart problems was denied in 2008. I reopened my DMII claim in 2009 with all the information that Kurt has up on the net and the VA denied to claim in 2010, ignoring all of the evidence that I submitted and claiming that herbicides were never use in Thailand, I appealed last August resubmitting everything that I had sent in 2009 along with the copy of the May 2010 bulletin. When the VA added IHD in 2009 I reopened my heart claim. I'm still waiting to hear on that claim. According to "Peggy" the IHD claim was closed Apr of 2011 but I haven't heard anything yet, I also have an appeal on my knees going since 2009. If they ever decide to grant sc for the IHD that may also go back to 2008.

Berta, I want to thank you for all the help and encouragement you have given us especially myself.

Rick

[Berta]

Bumping up for Thailand vet

[Texvet62]

I am Thailand Vet. Takhli RTAFB 12/66 - 12/67. Filed for s/c for DM2 due to direct exposure in 10/2001, shortly after Clinton had diabetes put on the list. Waco, denied, I appealed, went through NODS, SOCs, SSOCs, and finally the BVA, a lawyer got it into the CAVC, at which time it was remanded to the AMC (Appeals Mgt Center and/or the Waco Regional Office) in early 2008. Kept asking for info which I sent. Then in early 2012 got another SSOC at which time my VSO and I sent in the docs (CHECO, & Base Defense of Thai Bases, and map of base). Not a word from them until I noticed in "ebenefits" that a decision had been made. Got the big envelope today, and wouldn't you know it has been remanded again. In Jan this year along with the CHECK, I sent a couple of buddy type emails stating that the NCO "hootches" were right by the flightline, etc. All this was mentioned in their response today. They have asked the JSRRC (Joint Svc Records Research Center) for the second time to attempt to find records of hericide use/storage at Takhli during my tour of duty 12/66 - 12/67, even though DOD has confirmed that they were used in the 60's and 70's. Please, would anyone have any insight/opinions as to what my next move should be? Sorry for the book. THANKS in Advance!!

[Berta]

“In Jan this year along with the CHECK, I sent a couple of buddy type emails stating that the NCO "hootches" were right by the flightline,” I think you mean the CHECO Report????

Did your MOS or NSO status put you into those hootches?

The Buddy statements need to follow a brief criteria here at hadit, I don't think the VA will accept those emails unless they involve this criteria with identifying info.


http://www.hadit.com/forums/index.php?/topic/312-ltr-from-ro-ref-ssoc/


The Thailand Directive is here:

http://www.hadit.com...ctive-2006-013/

Also we did shows at SVR Radio available in the SVR archives here on this directive.

http://www.svr-radio.com/archives.html

The show with Kurt was in March 2010 regarding the VA directive (which was due to his work)


“VA Compensation and Pension Service (C&P) has determined that a special consideration of herbicide exposure on a factual basis should be extended to Veterans whose duties placed them on or near the perimeters of Thailand military bases when a Veteran with service in Thailand during the Vietnam Era claims a disability based on herbicide exposure. The Veteran must have served with the U.S. Air Force in Thailand during the Vietnam Era at one of the Royal Thai Air Force Bases (RTAFBs) at U-Tapao, Ubon, Nakhon Phanom, Udorn, Takhli, Korat, or Don Muang, and as an Air Force security policeman, security patrol dog handler, member of the security police squadron, or otherwise near the air base perimeter as shown by evidence of daily work duties, performance evaluation reports, or other credible evidence. VA Manual M21-1 Manual Rewrite, Part IV, ii, 2., Chapter.10.q (2010). “

From:http://www.va.gov/ve...es2/1111819.txt

“Please, would anyone have any insight/opinions as to what my next move should be? “

1.write to JSRRC yourself- their contact info is here and give them as many details as you can.

2. Ask the buddy's to prepare letters instead of their emails following the Buddy Statement criteria ere.

[Texvet62]

Berta, Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry for the typo "CHECK" versus "CHECO". Have been a subscriber to hadit for quite sometime, just not an active one. Shame on me. Could you please point me to the contact info for "JSRRC" including the phone number, if possible.

The area where the hootches were located were our living quarters. All NCOs lived there regardless of MOS or AFSC. Don't understand the acronym "NSO".

Since replying to the VA in Jan, I have located pictures of the areas outside the perimeters of the Takhli base. One or two were taken in the 1966/67 time frame by an enlisted guy from a helicopter ride above the base and clearly shows an environment devoid of any greenery/vegetation.

Didn't get into it, but my claim was for s/c due to being regularly pulled for a detail called FOD. Essentially this stands for foreign object damage, or walking the flightline and perimeter areas looking for and picking up objects that could be sucked into an aircraft causing untold thousands of dollars in damage and possibly lives. My MOS/AFSC did not cover this detail. Was an admin type in a command post (SAC) which was located within 100 yards or so from the actual flightline where we parked the KC-135's (refueling aircraft). Refueling was the mission of the unit I was assigned to.

Am reviewing the links you sent as well as listening to some of the SVR broadcasts.

Thanks Much Berta,

A.L. Utley (texvet62)

[Berta]

Sorry! Big Typo on my part -

I meant NCO -did you live the NCO hootches while TDY in Thailand?

JSRRC contact info here:

http://www.hadit.com...c-contact-info/

[Computer Tech]

Texvet;

The hootches at Korat were also near the preimeter. Is it possible for you to get buddy letters from some of the people that were at Takhli at the same time that you were and knew that you regularly pulled FOD detail, if they're in the proper format they may help. What always amazed me is that not once during the time I was at Korat was the grass around the hootches green and it rained almost every day.

Rick

[buickx]

"Dust or soil particles contaminated with TCDD can remain airborne or accumulate on indoor or outdoor work surfaces and may present a potential exposure hazard. Exposure to TCDD as a vapor will normally be negligible because of its low vapor pressure. Contact with TCDD-contaminated liquids is possible through the handling of drums or tanks containing the liquid or through dispersion of the liquid."

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/84-104/

THe above statement is part of this cdc study from 1984 under:
Nature of Occupational Exposure to TCDD

If you worked outside on any base recorded as being sprayed with AO, in Thailand, this study has been filed sucessfully by Thailand vets,for AO exposure by airborne vapor...in AO claims...

[Texvet62]

Thanks much Berta, buickx and computer tech for the info. Belong to the 355TFW Group web site and looking there also. Appears to be lots of info relating to a/o herbicides. I worked at Takhli for the entire year 12/66 - 12/67. Got Vietnam Service Medal with two stars, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal with Palm Device, etc......Thinking of gathering as much info/pictures as I can and then compiling it orderly and writing JSRRC. Saw Kurt's comment where allegedly Alvin Young coined the phrase "tactical herbicides" because it suited his purposes I assume. I will not give up the fight!!

texvet62
Takhli RTAFB 12/66 - 12/67

[arm1487]

My husband has been diagnosed with Stage 4-Squamous Cell Lung Cancer in which the left bronchus is blocked due to this cancer. He served during the Viet Nam era in Thailand, Ubon RAFB beginning in November 1966 through November 1967. His job was Cryogenic Fluids, making oxygen for the planes that flew missions to Viet Nam. He worked near the perimeter. We have filed a claim with VA for benefits and are being asked for factual information. Not sure what they are asking for. Can you help?

[Berta]

I regret no one answered your question. Some of us have been away from the board due to vacations, etc.

Obviously your husband has a disability that is presumptive to Agent Orange for incountry Vietnam veterans, those who fulfill the Korea AO criteria, and those veterans who fall under the AO Thailand Directive which is found here at the beginning of this topic.

I hope he also claimed the involvement of the bronchus, as also due to the Squamous cell cancer, as a secondary disability.

The problem of course is proving his exposure to Agent Orange in Thailand.


The following Veterans may have been exposed to herbicides:


U-Tapao Air Base, Thailand, 1972
The National Archives

• U.S. Air Force Veterans who served on Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) bases at U-Tapao, Ubon, Nakhon Phanom, Udorn, Takhli, Korat, and Don Muang, near the air base perimeter anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975.
• U.S. Army Veterans who provided perimeter security on RTAF bases in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975.
• U.S. Army Veterans who were stationed on some small Army installations in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975. However, the Army Veteran must have been a member of a military police (MP) unit or was assigned an MP military occupational specialty whose duty placed him/her at or near the base perimeter.
• http://www.publichea...ge/thailand.asp.

He needs to prove, via his SMRs, or 201 Personnel file, how his MOS put him on or very near the perimeter of the base.
What branch of service was he in? As you can see USAF MOS in Thailand is less restricted then the Army criteria.
He should certainly try to find someone he served with in Thailand for a “Buddy statement”.


A Buddy statement from some one, with his same unit, same time frame of Thailand service, and either same or consistent MOS as he had could write a letter to VA, to testify that he ,your husband, did work on the base perimeter.

“Cryogenic Fluids, making oxygen for the planes that flew missions to Viet Nam. He worked near the perimeter. “
This does not necessarily mean he worked in or near the perimeter.
His Unit surely has a web site and he might find a Buddy there he could contact (or maybe simply google the names of anyone he served with in Thailand,) and then he could obtain a statement that would support his claim as to the Thailand AO criteria.

The buddy statement should cpontain te buddy's MOS ,time in Thailand, etc and exactly how he knew of and witnessed your husband's duty on or very near the base permeter. The buddy should get his statement notarized if possible (banks often do that for free)and give the VA his complete contact info, to include phone number and email addy.


In this BVA case the veteran claimed pancreas disability due to exposures and his MOS was described thus:

“The veteran served on active duty in the US Air Force for
approximately four years. The veteran's military
occupational specialties during that time were 54430 -
cryogenics fluid production specialist - and 63111 - fuel
specialist. “
http://www.va.gov/ve...es4/0833346.txt




This claim reveals the problem BVA had ,at time of this remanded decision, getting a definition of his MOS from NPRC.
I hope your husband does have copies of his complete military records.
If not he can obtain them via NARA at


http://www.archives....ervice-records/
He will need to print off the bar coded thing, after he fills out the SF 180 ( I advise looking the form over first to make sure he has the info they need, sign it, copy it, and then mail it with proof of mailing to where the site directs him to.
Or he can print off the SF 180 and the bar code thing , prepare the form off line and sign,copy, and mail it to NARA.

He needs to get proof of mailing anything he sends to NARA or the VA.

Google has images and maps of this USAF base on line and perhaps he could find a map that he could highlight to show exactly where he worked on the perimeter but it would still take corroboration either from his military records, or from a buddy, and both types of corroboration would be the best bet.




My last NARA request took about 5 or 6 weeks. These days it is difficult to know how long that would take.








The following Veterans may have been exposed to herbicides:


U-Tapao Air Base, Thailand, 1972
The National Archives

• U.S. Air Force Veterans who served on Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) bases at U-Tapao, Ubon, Nakhon Phanom, Udorn, Takhli, Korat, and Don Muang, near the air base perimeter anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975.
• U.S. Army Veterans who provided perimeter security on RTAF bases in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975.
• U.S. Army Veterans who were stationed on some small Army installations in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975. However, the Army Veteran must have been a member of a military police (MP) unit or was assigned an MP military occupational specialty whose duty placed him/her at or near the base perimeter.
• http://www.publichea...ge/thailand.asp.

Edited by Berta, 26 June 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[azbill58]

This information is outstanding, I'm just waiting for the DVA to finish processing my claim from 1989 under the review process and my most current claim from December 2010. Keep the information flowing. Thanks, AZBill58

[asknod]

One thing most AF Vets focus on regarding Thai AO exposure is having an AFSC of Security Policeman or their hootches being close to the perimeter like they were at Udorn. The big new "barns" they put up in 1970 to replace the old hooches were jammed right up (within 100 feet) of the Northwest perimeter. What some forget is the Communications guys who did telephone maintenance or cable splicing in the perimeter areas. VA has not even touched on that group. Here's a good list of the affected Comm Squadrons and a few Army/Marine places http://asknod.wordpr...nd-ao-exposure/ In fact, here's a picture of Detachment B, 7th Radio Research Field Station about 10 klics from T-11 (Chiang Mai Airport). This place was nuked the whole time I was there from Oct. 70- May 72. Nothing grew there-period. The black and white is from the Lima Site 20 A's parking apron for the Hmong T-28s. They tried to plant grass there for a volley ball court but it died after a week. The place was hosed with it. Third pic is from 1500 looking NW at Long Tieng and you can see all the bare dirt around the runway and taxiways. The Hmong kids used to spread AO and A Blue with cut off bleach bottles undiluted right out of the barrels. After two years, I came home coughing up blood and thought it was due to Red Marlboros. I switched to lights! I'm rated 40% for PCT on that. Hope the pictures help.

Attached Files

•  LS 20 A (LS 98) Long Tieng Airpatch.jpg   79.92K   34 downloads
•  AOC parking apron LS 20A Long Tieng, Laos.jpg   52.67K   44 downloads
•  Det. B, 7th RRFS.jpg   45.25K   29 downloads

[asknod]

Here's another piece of the puzzle that will help Thai/Cambodia/Laos Vets. The truth is out there. 

http://www.viet-remf...rans Report.pdf

We sleep at night with one eye open at asknod.org. VA doesn't want this out of the bag because it would put them and Uncle Sam in the poorhouse. The military wasn't about to let on that they were running C-123 spray aircraft out of Udorn and NKP. The King of Thailand forbid it. The fact is , it was closer to the trail flying from up-country than from Bien Hoa. Check out the pictures for your claims. 

[Berta]

Yeah....Wes Carter, Major, Retired, USAF gave testimony on Jan 16th 2013 to the IOM regarding the C 123s I think I posted the link here in January...Havent had a single minute to get back to him.

 

www.c123cancer.org.  Is his web site with the testimony there.He had prepared an excellent argument on the modified transports ,circa 1972-1982 that flew

and sprayed the AO.

 

 

He referred to the GSA and USAF 2011 reports  regarding the "lingering contamination by military herbicides" to the planes....

 

That's right folks the 2011 reports...........the Weapon of Mass destruction, AO, keeps on giving....and is still a fluid subject for USAF and the GSA

 

By 2010 ,any C 123s left, were destroyed and put into landfills, per Carter's research.

 

He does mention those left as historic artifacts in museums. I am sure I saw one at Lackland AF Base when my daughter graduated from BT there. 1997.

 

They had a Blackbird on display  I stood in front of for photos but none of our cameras  could get the whole thing into one shot.........talk about great stuff the Mil has....

 

I digress........ the food on the base was great too...Every parent got a video their airman child was in.....my daughter was in the first 'integrated' graduation wing ? squadron? I forget....meaning the female airmen  did everything the male airmen  did,in BT .......and they did it all very Well!!!!

 

She said one of the MREs in a bivouac was shrimp or lamb........????? whatever they were ,she said the MREs were delicious.

 

I digress..............this is an important topic here....

Edited by Berta, 06 February 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[asknod]

And few people know AirAm had two PC-6Cs outfitted for AO spraying. They kept them down at L-08 Wattay (Vientiane) and loaded them for spraying up at 20 Alternate. The tanks were in the cargo area behind the pilot and invisible from outside. They sprayed downwards out the belly hatch. There is so much to learn and use for claims. The internet is a Godsend for Vets.

[Berta]

You Bet it is ASKNOD...The internet is our best weapon we have in the VA's  War of the Words.

 

I remember the olden days,when  I had to call up COVA ( former CAVC name)in Wash DC ,  and tell the what decisions I needed by docket, and then promise to pay them a few bucks by snail mail....maybe 2 dollars each decision, and then they would fax me the decisions.......

 

I thought that scenario was glorious!

 

Seems odd now to think of when CAVC decisions are just a few clicks away.

 

Blue Water Navy.org called me last night ( I am member of BWNVVA) and might have some relatively positive news soon.....still a long way from AO Equity but

 

then again,

 

most battles dont secure  lots of acreage at first,...... they get won in yards at a time of the ENs real estate.....

 

I will post updates on BWN AO Equity Act bill status as soon as I get the word from them.