Okay, my mind wanders and I been wonderin.

Say one incurred a concussion, knocked out and recovers enough to be released next day, recorded in medical records, is that considered a TBI? Treatment at 2 different hospitals, but later released after being 'watched' overnight.

Or is a TBI a severe impact that causes a chronic condition, needs followup care, stivitches bandaged, surgery etc?

To have the TBI recognized as such, does the vet need ongoing care? or just wait until something occurs that 'reconnects' the injury to a current condition?

The dumb question is the one not asked,
cg

CG, I would agree with you on the concussion, but I am not sure how the VA looks at it. I was shot in the head in Nam and was out for hours, But the VA denied my claim for TBI as there was no followup on it for years, I am told that TBI is a new diagnosis particular to Afgan and Iraq vets with the use of IED's

Thanks Tanker, didn't know this was a new type VA diagnosis and right, this would be 'peacetime' not combat related tbi. Thinking sc while I can, cause I read somewhere symptoms may show up months or years later. (mental illness,alzheimers or parkinsons) Oh well. Again, thanks.

cg

COwgirl,
I go to the VA on Tuesday to be tested for TBI. I screened when I got back from Iraq to possibly have it. I will let you know what I find out next week.

Any impact, IED or any form of trauma can caused bruising to the brain- usually an MRI would reveal this type of brain trauma but I read somewhere that even MRIs cannot always show exactrly what type of damage has occurred.

TBI is a physical trauma but can cause personality changes, mask depression and even PTSD and also be diagnosed along with these types of mental disorders.

A TBI vet I saw interviewed on TV had obvious personality changes due to his TBI- his speech was hesitant and even his responses were off the topic a few times-
VA has tried to say some vets with TBI have a personality disorder instead but nothing could be further from the truth.A PD saves them money-TBI is conpensable.

TBI has been around probably since cavemen started clubbing each other- the VA has realised that they have had to do much more study on TBI since IEDs have been so prevalent in the Iraq/Afganistan war.

What might be an obvious TBI to one serviceperson -such as one directly injured in a IED explosion-might also be easily overlooked in another serviceperson who was far enough away from the blast to have had possible momentary concussion from the explosion impact with no major physical symptoms or injuries.

VA has to keep on the TBI issue and find better ways to rule in or out TBI problems.
Sandboxsquid-let us klnow what the TBI testing involved.

It's been quite a while since I visited the board. Hello to all.

For cowgirls question, I'm 100% P&T from TBI. My injury was a closed head injury, meaning no skull fracture. I was not knocked out. However I was hospitalized for a couple weeks for "post concussive syndrome" after a somewhat severe reaction several days after the injury. From there I was given a clean bill of health but within a year problems developed. 12-14 years of misdiagnoses, no diagnoses(malingering accusations) followed. Eventually one good psych Doc got it right at a C&P. In summery, no a tbi does not have to be severe(skull fracture) to be SC, and if you can prove symptoms were occuring within a year or two of injury, treatment for a tbi is not neccisary for SC. What I mean by that is, if you had sought treatment for depression and/or other symptoms that can be attributed to the tbi but were not diagnosed as such, it can be proven that those symptoms were/are a result of the tbi. That is how I did it.

For Berta, MRI rarely shows this type of injury. Neuropsychological testing is usually the determining factor. In my case, MRI's show nothing. Neuropsych testing reveals severe functional limitations. The basis for my rating.

Timetowin, good to see you! Thank you, Sandbox, best wishes and Berta you are always informative! Time, that was a long time for you, 12-14 yrs, your psych doc earned their wings. Thank you sincerely for your service.

Checking my short 'ought to be sc' list, tbi question nags at me.

Smrs show patient with possible concussion admitted to 2 different mil hosp's for 'observation' within 24 hours. No flags to tbi to any other visits forward. Neuropsych exam, is that lengthy? - putting pegs in holes, other odd tests, childhood questions and how long I could sit in a chair answering? IF so, had va exam like that with 1st claim. Clown wrote 'probable' diagnosis of nsc Pd. ha. n.s.c = non 'service' compensable, better definition.

Other sc ratings are in, but I feel tbi need sc. Oh, concussion (aka,tbi) was listed on first claim years ago. Way back then, didnt know how to va proof the claim, appealed a few issues for sc, but most were denied. Fast forward to past few years, realized I've 'hadit' with ignorance and am catching up.

Thanks again,
Cg

My TBI appointment was uneventful at best. I talked to a nurse for approximately 30 minutes about Iraq, and then I met with the doctor for about 20 minutes. They gave me a questionnaire, and I filled that out when I first got to the VA. This is what the basis of my meeting with the doctor was about. He says I screen for TBI, and I need to go back for a 3-4 hour comprehensive exam. I will keep you updated when I get the appointment and what transpired.

Cowgirl, Yes the testing was lenghty. It is mostly a battery of IQ testing. Often the MMPI or other 'personality assesment' is given also. They are looking for cognative disorder but not generaly low numbers across the board. It is low results in different areas that don't make sence that point to TBI. An example is my language scores were a bit above average in the 70 percentile range but my verbal scores are extremely low in the 3 percentile. Since language and verbal abilities are intertwined the scores are not normal. Things like MDD will cause reduced IQ across the whole range.

The VA refused to test me, I had to get it done privatly. I would not be the least surprized that your tests could have shown signs of head trauma but at that time most docs did not understand the signifacants. Many TBI sufferers have spent time in mental institutions for years. It has only been in the last few years things have changed. For twelve years I had told many docs of my head injury both inside and outside the VA. Not one even pursued the issue saying it could not cause the problems I was having.

Sandbox, I will do some research and see if I can get you some links. I don't know where you are located or what your status is but some places in the VA are better than others for TBI evaluation and treatment. Time is very important for treatment.

Here is the site I recomend anyone with possible TBI visit.

Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center (DVBIC)

Also from my experience, if I could do it all over again starting after the injury and these resources were available to me, I would do everything possible to be evaluated at one of these centers.

With the exception of one C&P Doctor that pointed me in the right direction, I have yet to be properly evaluated nor treated by the VA. Five years after diagnoses.

cg - TBI is the same as any ratable disability in that it must be a disability. The fact that you banged your head is not ratable. What is ratable is if you are now having residual problems in which the doc will say are due to the head bang you had in service. So without residuals and follow-up medical treatment the claim will not pass muster. But if you are having problems seek medical care and then process the claim.

There is a new physical that you must request, Fast Letter dated 07-21, specifically deals with TBI and all its sub tendencies. I just had a DRO hearing and I was advised to request this physical. Still waiting on my physical in Manchester, NH.

TBI is much more than a bang in the head. Visit BIAA website.

Just a figure of speech my friend. Sorry if you were offended. The original poster was not speaking of TBI as known to current iraq/afghan veterans.

THanks ricky, good advice as usual for this ole cg. ha ha!

It took the VAMC neurologists well over a decade to make a diagnoses of TBI in my case.
The doctor said his diagnoses was based on the MRI and his 10 min physical examination.
No previous decade of treatment records were viewed.

He determined the TBI was due to trauma or toxins.
The MRI is an important part of determining any impact on the brain. Get a copy of your MRI's, cat scans and spinal tap lab results and study them. They will help you prove your case for old or new veterans with TBI.

Electroencephalographic (EEG) test is another way to help confirm a diagnosis of TBI.

Thank you. Can a new eeg would capture information from decades old injury? need to learn more myself.

Cg

I suspect that an EEG can only show what was found as of when it was done. What can be inferred from that would be up to the neurologist. Certain abnormal EEG patterns are very suggestive of a TBI. Plus, as a VA neurologist told me: "if an EEG is negative, it only means that for those 20 minutes it didn't catch the problem. A repeat EEG might show it." So there's really no downside to having one or two.

Using an EEG test result to confirm a diagnosis of a TBI is only as good as the VA Rater will allow it to be. I had three EEG tests, while on medication for a psychiartric problem and after being off the medication for a period. Each tests results came up the same as showing a slow wave form activity of the frontal area or lobe of the brain. These findings were attributed to the cerebral concussion I has suffered, which would now be considered a closed brain TBI as a result of trauma from a fall which also resulted in a fracture nasal bone, which was found to be SC. Yet the cerebral concussion was and still is not considered SC.

The EEG test results at the time of those tests were never shown to have either resolved or returned to normal and the VA refused to conduct further testing to clarify this issue each time I tried to reopen my claim to try and SC the cerebral concussion and it's residual effects.

I am hoping with the new standards for TBI, I will be able take current neuropsychiatric tests that show congnitive problems due to trauma, the unresolved issue of the EEG, and medical history that showed ungoing and developing problems that are as like as not to be attributed to the cerebral concussion that was caused by the trauma resulting from the fall and subsequent SC nasal fracture which after 35 yrs. I was finally able to get rated at 10% for the fractured nasal bone and deviated septum due to trauma. Which is the highest rating one can get for this under the current DC it is listed.

I am only wondering if I should open a claim for the TBI as seperate from the SC nasal bone or as secondary or result of the SC nasal bone.

What I should have just said, is that you will have to spoon feed the medical findings, such as the EEG, making sure the VA Rater see's and reads it.

Rockhound Rider

Will scour my med records for eeg this week, but not sure how it goes. Thanks mil nurse.

Rock and Allan, I'll use your thoughts in proceeding for tbi (or not). With other unfinished claims in work and in progress, I need to re-prioritize, yikes! With mdd, on other meds and on ssdi has me wondering some days, I tell ya. Too much to complain about, so guess I'm doin ok for now.

"thanks,
Cg

Take care not to let it overwhelme you. I get a brain freeze sometimes and nothing gets through.
Take it one day at a time.

Allan

Thanks Allan, gotcha. Guess I get my daily priorities rearranged a bunch any ole how. You mentioned brain freeze; makes me think for mhy families sake, I need to re-list VA issues that need resolved, along with basic notes.

Gonna take day off tommorow just cause,
Cg'smiles!


Take care not to let it overwhelme you. I get a brain freeze sometimes and nothing gets through.
Take it one day at a time.

Allan