This forum is a bit different from other forums. This if for folks who are organizing petitions, marches, letter writing campaigns and so on.

In this forum you can reply to topics, but you cannot start a topic you must pm me to start a topic. This forum is to assist veterans who organizing efforts it is not for what we ought to do it is for folks who doing something.

HadIt.com does not support, nor does it endorse any organization, movement or association listed on this forum or our main site at http://www.hadit.com

Tbird

Thanks T for starting this forum.

Being one of those people who's been writing and calling and planning to bring attention to all of these indignities that we veterans suffer far too often; it's very helpful to have a specific place besides social chat to post.

It occures to me that part of the problem with the reality that very little has change in our favor is how we look at the whole system.

Today i posted in another place here on hadit, that in many ways those people who are assigned to help us don't even realize how they are part of the problem. To suggest that they are makes them vandictive. If this wasn't true then there wouldn't be so many cases of files and folder finding their way to the round file because you lost your temper and called someone an A-hole or maybe just a dirty look. This scenario existed way before schredder-gate. But i must have had a Nostradamus moment when i saw my first shredder at a VA facility. Of course it was sold as a way to assure that nothing of a secure nature would slip into the wrong hands...interesting isn't it. That it took someone that long to figure out how to create an Oppps speaks volumns about the help

I will post here the addresses for the Committees on Vets Affairs when I have time- it is in the claims topic too.

Also there is access info at the VA web site to your district Congressman/woman and your 2 state Senators.

Also a claimant should not hesittatwe to go to the Federal Register Web site and access all VA proposed rules, regulations, and amendments and they can make public comment right through the web site.

The Federla Register site has changed since I first started to use it- but it still can take a little time to get used to.

If I cannot find a public comment I made there-as I might forget what specific VA rule or reg it was about-I just use their browser to Google my name and then it pops up.

Best way to find stuff under VA there is to look for anything with open comment period.

Berta,

Maybe i'm wrong but i think going the route you outline here about writing to congressmen(women) and or senators is such a waste of time as is writing to the VA and doing all of these traditional methods that clearly has had minimal effect over the years and in some cases maybe even backfired.

If you read the post from watchdog about the VSO from VVA calling for house cleaning you will read counter attacks be VA employee's and people claiming to be veterans ( and they may be ) who get radical with their vindictiveness knowing that veterans with benefits and family worry about losing it if they make waves.

If you work for an agency that you can hide behind it makes it pretty easy to "pull some strings" "drop some names" screw with veterans and never have to worry about getting called on the carpet.

At some point in time not so long ago i'd bet that CEO's for those hugh investment banks, insurance companies, mortgage lenders, automakers, couldn't imagine that the would have to get their face in the news and have to answer questions to congress. But even when they did they still came off as arrogant and unrepentant. Look at that and you will see the VA; the Bernie Madoff of our benefits.

We should write a letter to Alan Dershowitz or other constitutional professors/attorney's who might find the achilles heal that no one else has every looked for let alone found. It would be a real act of patriotism if he/they did it for free to boot.

i just found Dershowitz website. i'll copy this letter and send it to him...if nothing else it might plant a seed.

What would it involve to set up a political action committee to funnel money to politicans to carry out a pro-veterans agenda? This is the American way. All the other political actors do it. Every industry and interest group has a PAC except vets. Money is what talks in D.C.

Dear Mr. Dershowitz,

I'm a veteran who like many veterans suffer at the hands of the Veterans Administration.

We're told to trust mainstream veterans organizations to help us and or to write to our congressmen/women for help only to get a form letter with a stamped signature or dilly dally with non-attorney's who act as if they are you Mr.Dershowitz.

It has occurred to me that maybe what really needs to be done to bring justice to those of us who served our country is to challenge the constitutionality of VA law which deprives us of the same rights as other Americans starting with do process.

Many of my fellow veterans have lost hope and think that there is nothing new under the sun that can be done to put an end to the reign of this agency. Many of us believe that if investigated there is no doubt you would find criminal acts against those of us who in many cases are now permanently scared for the rest of our life and all we want is what has been promised when we took our oath to defend the constitution against ALL ENEMIES foreign and DOMESTIC.

As our country is bailing out every white collar crook who stole from us all and put us in this terrible climate that we find ourtself in; you have to wonder how they can forget those of us in the trenches.

Thanks for considering this suggestion.

Patriotically yours,





Thank you for your submission.

Messages for Professor Dershowitz are reviewed by his staff throughout the day. If you are reading this, rest assured that we have received yours.

If you have submitted a legal case, please allow 6 to 8 weeks for review.

If you have submitted an interview request or an invitation, we will respond as quickly as possible.

If you have written to express a view or have specific questions, we will try our best to respond. We hope that you will understand that time and resources do not allow Professor Dershowitz to respond to every message individually, but he is always grateful for thoughtful comments and questions.

Sincerely,

The Office of Alan Dershowitz

I bet Dershowitz never humped a rucksack in Vietnam in his youth. He was in Harvard Law School, nice and safe. Do you think he is going to waste his time on a bunch of people he probably consideres to be war criminals? Harvard Law School....upper class: Vietnam boonies....lower class. We don't even speak the same language. The only way for vets to get what they deserve is for them to take it. That probably won't happen because the ruling class will hire half of the working class to club and shoot the other half. That is what happened in the past IE. Bonus Marchers.

Ya never know J....sometimes with guys like him it's about other things. He defended OJ! And he's a civil liberties advocate. If not him maybe the open letter on youtube or on a full page ad in the Washington Post. And yes, i think i know how much a full page ad costs. i'll call and ask them to donate it. And if not them maybe a full page add in The Hometown News forwarded to the AP and the Post.

Bottom line for me is the message: Hey America do you know..... and Is this legal?
Just because there's a law that's been enacted for X amount of years doesn't mean that it would hold up if challenged.

I respectfully but completely disagree with you-

I dont feel in any way whatsoever that all I have done regarding those entities has been a waste of time for veterans. I sure all the stuff I have done.

Gershowitz-last I heard- (a criminal lawyer) was working at Harvard teaching-my uncle told me that and he is retired Harvard faculty-but I could be wrong.

I am putting my faith in the wonderful veterans lawyers that keep watch over our backs-
they will most likely be at tomorrow's hearing.
Rich Cohen NOVA- (who I plan on getting back to SVR show soon)
Ron Abrams who I have know since 1991, Bart Strickland,
and Rich Spaturo-(all from NVLSP) who I am going to again ask to be on SVR-they are all great to talk to and I am deeply grateful for their work on behalf of veterans.
There are plenty more-wonderful lawyers trying to change the claims process for us all-

NVLSP is Pro bono-
but good place to donate money-
they are getting a big donation from me as I dont expect to need a another IMO for my claim.

Alan Deshowitz- I might still have his phone number.Easy to talk to -but he doesnt know a thing about VA 101.

I think this is good place to post the marches and petitions - there are plenty of them going on from time to time-

and I think the battlefield of the claims process will be won like many battles are, not in big chucks of gain of the enemy's real estate but yard by yard like many battles of Vietnam and WWII.

John -check out Veterans for Common sense site-
I sent him money when he filed the San Francisco District Court case for vets last year.a superb attorney-easy to talk to as well-he was on the SVR show too.

i agree with berta i don't think it's a waste of time to contact congress and done as an organized effort with the same message it will have an effect.

there are many spokes in this wheel, don't be so quick to throw one out. a combined effort using all the channels available is in my imho the way to go

dark and hopeless any? :rolleyes: i do not beleve in taking what is ours, i believe in working within the system and using each piece of it to our advantage

i'd say off the top of my head that Mr. Dershowitz is not the one to go with. personally i would not capitalize enemies and domestic, i would take out many us believe statement to actual cases of fraud and destruction of records that have come up. we may believe a lot of things but what can we prove.

what is the specific goal you want to reach, we can say we want what we earned, but what our those things? if we are asking for something we should be specific and focused on that thing it should be a deliverable thing, for example: don't treat us like sh_t -now that statement i mean what can they do with that? i believe a better statement would be: we want veterans to be seen with 2 weeks from the time an appointment is made, this is just an example now see this is something could deliver on and something that can be negotiated.

do you all understand what i am saying?

I am still waiting for that 25% compensation increase. There are questions that can be solved by having a good lawyer, and there are questions that only an advocate group can solve.

T, i try not to pretend that i know what anyone means for sure from what they are saying. i think what i've been saying has either not been said correctly or my way of seeing it is not the same as others. That doesn't mean i'm going to stop explaining what i'm trying to say and or what i mean.

i'm going to attempt to answer you and Berta at the same time.

Dershowitz came to mind when i was writing another post and looked up his name on google to see how to spell it. From there i found his website and there was a place to write to him. He teaches or taught Consitutional law at Harvard. Thinking about all the feedback that i've been getting here questioning why i think that something i might do is going to make a difference when nothing previously has....well it isn't about convincing everyone to stop what they've been doing and believe in and maybe have been successful doing but wondering what i was going to do differently.

i've heard Dershowitz speak and during Q&A he was always eager to answer a question with passion and intelligence. He's also an ACLU advocate, and as part of the so called "Dream Team" defended OJ by attacking the prosicutions case rather than defending OJ directly. We know how that turned out and although it was a "DREAM TEAM" of lawyer heavy weights Dershowitz was the expert on constitutional law and procedure. My angle has to do with challenging the constitutionality of VA LAW.
From what i understand any law can be challenged but how can i know that for sure? Why not ask the professor? That said he may indeed be the wrong person to ask for the reasons that John mentions or Berta's reasons, your reasons or other reasons. But instead of just talking about it i thought i would write. Can't take back what i already wrote no matter how much better it could have been worded. Maybe if he comes back and says "Tell me more" WE can script a better letter.

Berta i do not want to disparge any of those attorney's or organizations that you have had great success with including the letter writing to congressmen, senators, the VA....if it works it for you it works.

Team work instead of finding fault in what each other is doing. Writing letters for me has been an insulting ordeal.,,maybe we can find fault in my writing skills? But i've posted a few times about talking a face to face with Tim Mahoney in FL who addressed the pocket picking from the VA budget by congress for pet projects when they couldn't get money elsewhere "CHUMP CHANGE" Well that jerk hung himself but had he not he would have been my rep had i stayed in FL. The only way i'd waste my time writing that bum a letter would have been if i used it for toilet paper first.

And as to why i capitalized ENIMIES and DOMESTIC it's based on what i hear not just hear but elsewhere about the VA being criminal in their actions. That sounds like a domestic enemy to me. Radical perhaps but it isn't unthinkable that a very smart attorney could make that case. If they break the law and veterans are the victims what would you want to happen to them? Banished to a penthouse overlooking the Mall?

i did read something on vawatchdog today posted by a veteran that says:
"Agencies are "outside establishments" not answerable to anyone except by joint resolution, so, yes, its the congress that's at fault. The supreme court said long ago that there were no public officers from the president on down. Why? Because they all fell into disuse. Nobody has used the constitutional government even for equity matters in generations. Everything has gone to administrative courts. These agencies are not government and not business, they are totally independent and have unfettered discretion outside of the constitution."
If this is true then it's going to be a challenge to find someone willing to test it.

So that's what and why i wrote to him.

stepp i didn't mean it as an insult, i meant it as a sharpening the blade. like i said it's my opinion you don't have to agree with it, but please don't take it as an insult it was certainly not meant that way.

I didnt mean to sound abrupt here either Steppenwolf-

it is just that I felt a psychic pain at what you said-

I really should have mentioned DSNurse instead of the lawyers-talk about an advocate- she is spectacular-

DS Nurse, Denise Nicols, retired, veteran of the Gulf War RELENTLESSLY has pursued Congress for years and does everything she can think of- marches, large mailing lists, member of numerous sites, etc etc- at her own time and own dime to try to get many conditions in GWVs recognized as service related by the VA.

She has given testimony in DC and does not hesitate to travel at her own expense to help Gulf War vets.

She isnt leaving any other vets out because victories for GWVs is a victory for all veterans.

She gets dozens of emails a day -all veteran related-and has been on the SVR broadcast many times urging vets who can get involved, to do that.

a Personal note- saw my doc yesterday- I am in very good health but she made me really realize that most 'retired' people (which I am supposed to be), do not work every day like I do. Advocacy is hard work, and time consuming, and she made me consider how much stress I get from doing it. I get stressed up someimes trying to wade through a CAVC decision or even dealing with some local vets who are friends of mine on claims issues or things that happen at the local VA.

I have a working farm, I shovel snow from Nov to April, am secretly married to Mr. Clean in case the dust bunny cops show up, and try to cook gourmet meals a few days a week-and have lots else going on in my life- all stuff I love but nevertheless- it all can take a toll on us. Advocacy for vets is really hard work.

BTW- Alan- I faxed him during the OJ stuff and he called me and I ran by him my FTCA case.
He didnt think I had a case at all.
He was wrong.
Great Lawyer- but he does not know VAOLA -and the regs they use against us -then -maybe he does now.

Tbird defined what this forum is for and I admire your enthusiasm.

If anyone wants to help veterans-there are many things they can do-

As a VA volunteer I am not allowed to give Dom patients rides.
But I am allowed to take out -patients into the village if they need a ride and they save the cab fare.

Bringing donuts to the VA chapel service sometimes - a little thing-but a crowd there might only be 10 veterans ,me and the Chaplain. When I tell the donut shop they are for the VA vets they often throw in some extras.This is always an appreciated gesture.



I am getting off the point of this topic-
and I am glad we have his forum. (I need to find a donut now myself)

No T, i was not "insulted" and i appreciate that both you and Berta wrote back to further explain what you were attempting to communicate to me. In fact this is what we all need to keep in the forefront of our desire to help each other and to work toward VA reform.

Both you and Berta humble me by comparison to what i'm trying to do. There is no doubt that i can learn lots from both of you and many others here on hadit. That said my frustration with this system and process has rattled my cage so much that like many of our brothers and sisters i thought about checking out. Is it too much of a stretch to say that they ( The VA ) would like that; one less to deal with? i have heard others say that although it will never be found written anywhere that part of the plan is to delay to discouragement or death. That's ugly stuff even if it's only partially true.

It's obvious that knowing the best way to proceed with our cause is a work in progress. These things that have been working need to be supported by me even if they haven't worked for me. i'm with you 100%!

i welcome the sharpening of the blade and probably could use some work on the handle also. <s>

"i welcome the sharpening of the blade and probably could use some work on the handle also" lol

As i mentioned to T-bird i am humbled by your dedication, and passion for the well-being of Veterans. There is much to learn from you and many others here on hadit.

AD surely isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and i want to acknowledge the point that you make about him not knowing Title 38. That said, what i am questioning is the legality of that body of law.

Last night i spent hours trying to find out as much as i could about "VA LAW" When was it written? What existed before it? What is it intened to do? Is there one author or committee who have an identity? So for instance when talking about The Constitution we hear the term : "The Framers" It is not difficult to find out the names of The Framers. Who "framed" Title 38?

i do not pretend to know law but in doing my search last night i discovered some interesting building blocks of the term "Constitution" and how it is tied to Human Rights. That we are read chapter and verse explaining why VA Law allows this or that it occures to me that if you hold it up against the most basic rule of constitutional law it might be argued that VA LAW is flawed and perhaps invalid.

Lawyers and doctors ( pardon the generalization but i think it is sound and i'm sure there are exceptions ) are resistant to what could be excellent information from the common folk. To suggest to an attorney who expertise is veterans law that the whole body might be invalid or unconstitutional would probably be met with laughter and all that goes with that laughter which includes unspoken thoughts about the person who suggested the possibility.

Haven't we all found our own cures, albeit temporary at times for things that doctors do not support or believe in ( yoga, meditation, accupunture, treatments not approved by the FDA etc ) If one is like my mother you will not do anything without the approval from her beloved doctor who i think is an ego maniac.

i'm just presenting grounds for considering the possibility that no one has attacked the problem from this angle in the past. Just because the VA has been sued for a variaty of things, class action suits and all, the strenght of the suit is contingent on so many factors that it's not fair to say that it's been done before when it is very possible that it hasn't been done with the right formula.

There are soooo many examples of what i'm trying to say along with details of why it failed. For instance on 60 minutes this past sunday: "Harry Markopolos repeatedly told the Securities and Exchange Commission that Bernie Madoff's investment fund was a fraud. He was ignored, however, and investors lost billions of dollars."
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
In the segment we see Bernie telling an investment group how near impossible it is to run a scam. He mentions the SCC as his "friends". So is it so surprising that when Markopolos went to the SCC that they "found no evidence of fraud". "No evidence" sounds very familiar to veterans and that's not even considering schredder-gate. And like the VA those emploee's who you must consider as instrumental in the loss of billions of dollars and ruining peoples life are not named.
If the whole body of law (VA ) can't be thrown out maybe just making those who recklessly make the decisions be accountable and disallowed to hide behind that VA curtain would lead to less denials. It's not unimaginable. And lets be honest, the VA is not the CIA; why do they need to remain annonymous?

Lastly, thanks for telling me the story of DS Nurse, Denise Nicols. Once again i can only aspire to be as dedicated as DS, T-bird and you.
Thanks for all that you do!!!

The people who invented the VA and fund it is the President and Congress. That is where the solution to the problems the VA has will come from, and not from picking apart the legal straws the VA is built upon. If pressure can be put on Congress and the President's office to fix the VA then it will happen. Lawyers are for working with the laws that govern the VA. They are not there to change it.

Great point John-

I feel 38 USC ,38 CFR is almost perfect as it is (or in Ben franklin's words, when the Declaration of Independence was prepared-he remarked-it isnt perfect but it is all we have got)
What is missing has caused many amendents to happen over the years.

It is the VA's own disregard for established VA case law and 38'regs- that is the problem.

Even their own handbook M21-1MR-spells out clearly -in easy to read English- how they are to apply those laws.

Example- I bought a weed wacker last at Amazon and then had to put it together myself.
No problem because I had the instructions to follow.Works like a dream-

VA Has the instruction manual for the claims process. Seems to me they read it like they want the same results I get from my weed wacker-to cut us down hopefully so we wont grow back.

The hearing is available at H VAC site for those who could not catch it yesterday-I miised a lot- farm busines-

steppenwolf - i'm still having trouble figuring out what it is that you want to do specifically...Title 38 is the codification of the law and it goes through the same process of all laws. if you are going from the angle that va law is not constituionally correct, i wish you luck with that, it will be a huge project for you, to huge for me. i'm overwhelmed just thinking about it. i prefer to eat the elephant one bite at a time. :)

That's it. And it's funny that you mention the elephant because i used the same animal for a little different analogy the other day talking to a law student pitching my thoery for bring down the beast. Throwing rocks at it all day long won't bring it down and might even piss it off. But one well placed dart with a little potion on it and you can take any size bite you want.

It's pretty clear that i don't have much, maybe no support for this idea. That said i do research everyday day and night, make calls and send emails everyday, and i'm not discouraged with the feedback that i'm getting outside of hadit.

This is not a one trick pony. There are other options that were talked about a while back and today i spoke with a national news service who is considering an investigating my allegations. It occures to me that one voice is all it takes in this climate for a news agency to want to poke around especially if there is a break out story. But i wish i could go to the table with a few other veterans who are willing to have their case looked into and maybe present a stack of cases history that will hit all of those in postions now who should know about this and be doing something about this and are not. So i'd say don't throw away all of those letters that you wrote to you congressman who like mine are more interested in their bridges to nowhere than helping veterans. A different spot but another well placed dart.

Those other veteran organizations who do great things for their own personal cause are now getting more interested when they realize that the bigger issue may get the coverage that it has always deserved but just never had the legs to stay in the news long enough to bring that elephant down.

i have to ask if this forum is open to that news agency who will want to read about the stories that i told them are many?

This was sent to me from someone inside the VA who i've been talking to. i did a search here to see if it's been posted before and it has but not exactly as it was sent to me:

A "Veteran" whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to, and including his/her life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact.

stepp i'm not trying to discourage you, i just think it is an enormous task, the forum as a whole has no problem with reporters writing stories that support veterans. but getting individual stories is up to each member to make their own personal decision. you can certainly post a topic requesting veterans whose stories would be of interest to reporters. why don't you type up a post with what kind of stories you are looking for and tell folks what your plans for the story are and go from there. you can post it in va claims research and we can see if anyone has an interest.

tbird

If this helps- I was contacted yesterday to appear on a major Prime Time live news show regarding the October Incident-they read my H VAC testimony-

there was not enough time for me to do this with short notice-

they even considered sending camera crew here to my home- until they realised I live in the boonies-

if I do in this show in the future -it will be one small step for veterans -to get public attention for the way the VA has treated claims and evidence. That is all I can say as to that-a work in progress-maybe

I too am not sure what you want from us here Steppenwolf.

The Shredding problem-I agree that personal renditions of how a vet or widow themselves were violated by the VA this way-can have impact when there are many complaints from numerous claimants.
HVAC and the Sub COms are aware that this is sure not isolated-they got multiple letters from vets and widows since OCt and the last hearing on this all-

News outlets can read hadit as guest just like anyone else can-
I emailed Carl Bernstein to see what he could do-but no rrsponse- I think his journalism days are over- as he writes some fabulous books now instead.

I have known our dear faithful member and moderator Pete here for over 20 years.

Pete said a few times "gettings vets to unite on something is like herding cats."

Vets deal with so much personally that they often cannot unite or get on any bandwagons at all-

I see it here in the NY vets community around the local Bath VA.Disabled vets want to help other disabled vets but often they simply cannot do that and they are the very part of the population who needs the help and support themselves.

I dont think your ideas are being ignored by our members-maybe they dont understand what you want to do-

It is sort of the way I filed my claims-I then prepared the Battle Plan.The way I would support the claim.

Do you have a plan of action prepared?
Or is this what you need input on fom us?

CBS news had a report last night about the New York VARO and how thousands of claims were misplaces or shredded. Some congressman was outraged about it. They interviewed a guy hurt in Iraq or Afghanistan whose records were lost. They had talked to him when he was in a military hospital and asked him if he was afraid the VA would lose his records, and that is exactly what happened. A surviving spouse was on as well whose husbands entire C-File was lost. She is still waiting for survivor benefits.

yep-that was who contacted me from their studios in DC.

Great news -as I hope this vet and widow told it how it is.

When I heard "New York VA" I thought I might be seeing Berta on the news blasting the VA with both barrels. These outrages against vets have to compete with all the other events going on in the world. The VA's outrages are the only thing that gets us in the news.

When i hear: "what are you trying to do" i wonder what's missing?

T-bird asked: "i'm still having trouble figuring out what it is that you want to do specifically...Title 38 is the codification of the law and it goes through the same process of all laws. if you are going from the angle that va law is not constituionally correct, i wish you luck with that, it will be a huge project for you, to huge for me. i'm overwhelmed just thinking about it. i prefer to eat the elephant one bite at a time. "

i answered: Yes. That's exactly my angle.

Hopefully we are now clear on that point. However i also said that i was open to other suggestions and feedback.


This is a complex problem as i see it with ( pause....even for this word i have to pause to think if there is a better word, a more succinct word ) to identify, to express, to communicate "IT".

Maybe i can turn this back on everyone here: What is "IT" that we are trying to accomplish? Yes, i know this part clearly: try to help Veteran's navigate the system. But why is "the system" so hard to "navigate"? How is it that they ( VA ) can ignor Constitutional law? Why is it that so many suffer the same indignity and can't get help from the traditiaonal sources, resources, policies, procedures that we are told that we MUST follow? How is it that Title 38 becomes limiting instead of expansive therefore making it more difficult to get the help and benefits that were part of the incentive and or promise for serving? So once again: what is "IT" and does "IT" need a webpage like hadit? or vawatchdog? or news organizations to investigate, or TV shows to point out the nightmare and indignity thrust upon those of us who served?



Since the last time i posted i discovered a very interesting post that took me to a show that i missed and have not heard mentioned anywhere else. Because issues are reported everyday, updates are posted, new questions are asked, new information gets posted from sources everywhere, it's easy to see how an important post can fade away. But the hadit search engine did bring it up with the words Dr Phil
http://www.hadit.com/DR_PHIL_VETERANS_GET_...QUATE_CARE.html
Timing was good because in my conversation with the news agency i told them that i didn't think that the message was out there strong enough. Listening to this show helped enlighten me about a few things. If you watched it before i suggest that you watch it again. Dr Phil says to Congressman Filner in essence "If you are THE "Committee" and can't do anything what will it take" Filner sadly replies that only the president can fire anyone.
Fireing someone at the VA is like cutting the head off of a Hydra: if you cut off the wrong one another will grow back. But i say cut off it's source of power and you kill the whole beast.

Here we are back at the begining again. What do we know? i know this: The beast is getting attacked but survives. It pumps out mistruths and Propaganda and feeds off of it's own success surviving every attack. It gives a little and those who get a little sometime express their gratefulness for any crumbs they get. Those expressions of gratitude then get pumped up with steriods and are used to offset those legitamate complaints by the majority who suffer. Each success that the beast has makes it look more like any other regime.

( In politics, a regime is the form of government: the set of rules, cultural or social norms, etc. that regulate the operation of government and its interactions with society. For instance, the United States has one of the oldest regimes still active in the world, dating to the ratification of its Constitution in 1789. Although modern usage often gives the term a negative connotation, Webster's definition clearly states that the word "regime" refers simply to a form of government. ^[2]The term is also sometimes used to distinguish what is actually being enforced from what is considered legitimate. Enforcement of an unconstitutional statute would be a regime but not a law. )

Identify it correctly and recognize that buying into it's "rules", not stepping out of line, telling others that "this is all we have", that "this is the law" amongst other sound bites; boils down to spreading the ruthlessness of the beast message(s) even if it's without intent, malice, or even knowing. We all do it because we bought into the whole package of following the rules "it's the law"!
"....distinguish what is actually being enforced from what is considered legitimate." Look no further than these pages to find the absolute most basic of laws blantantly violated by the VA " Do Process " and as i read it The VA is acting with impunity and clearly violating the most fundamental elements of the Constitution that we took an oath to defend.

So T-Bird, when you suggest that i not capitalize the words ENEMY and DOMESTIC can you not see why i felt a need to emphasize those two points? Filner use similar terms as do the other guests on the show. We've said it here and it's been said by other service organizations and congressman.
But the capitalization happened after listening to a passionate expression of frustration by a retired Gen who i spoke to at a political gathering before the presidental election when i spoke to him about veterans issues. He said: " When you took your oath to defend the constitution of the United States of Amercia against all ENIMIES foreign and DOMESTIC it is not part of that oath to regime change another countries governement. We need to leave that illegal war that we are fighting, bring back our warriors to this country and march them up to DC and yank all of those criminals out of hallowed halls and restore law and order here where we belong." i was speachless to hear these words out of the mouth of a retired General. i even said to him: " i wouldn't say that too loudly sir; someone might missunderstand" He said: " Boy, do you understand the Constituiton of the United States of America and what 1st amendment rights allow us to express?" "This is what I believe and it's why I am no longer serving the country that I love. I will not take orders from Criminals!"

i haven't been able to get that moment out of my mind and have been reading the Consitution, Bill of rights, and as much as i can about something that i knew little about most of my life. i only wish that i had had a teacher as passionate as this general. Maybe i would not have taken my "rights" so causually for so long.

Pete's quote may hold a clue. Doesn't matter the reason(s) but i'm not sure it will take everyone to be actively onboard.

Perhaps we can find fault with my plan or lack there of. However my plan is about as well thought out as The Mouse that Roared. It may only take a small squad of dedicated focused individuals.

And yes: "input" would help but if you think the plan is too off the wall or far fetched then it's hard to imagine that the input would be helpful. But lets see who brings what.

The Mouse that Roared a classic movie but the point was you had to lose a War against the US to win. The big example was Italy and Germany who lost WWII but US helped them recover.

Sorry to say this strategy will not work for VA and say Katrina.

Thanks Pete for your thoughts and you may be right about the strategy not working. Clearly it is not a typical plan to address the issues. It's been said before; this isn't my only idea. No matter what the outcome, i'm studying the Constitution as i never have before and i'm learning a lot about the importance of words, sometimes one word and interpretation(s). To study this is to find support for it.
At some point it makes more sense not to work so hard trying to sell it to others who if successful it will benefit. If anyone is curious or truely interested in "the plan" what's being done, who's being contacted, details of the basis to proceed they will ask.

On going is another plan for a colaborated effort in the form of a youtube "open letter" followed by a small demenstartion with news coverage. It has been agreed to create a name for identity purposes; an LLC to start with the possibility of becoming a 503C. Research suggests that the process of forming a 503c is time consuming and labor intensive. i know for sure that i myself do not want to learn the ropes, fill out the volumns of paperwork, and keep a finger on that pulse along with all of the other ones i'm monitoring.

As far as the premis of The Mouse that Roared; you don't have it exactly right. As the story goes this little country in Europe about the size of New York City found itself on financal hardtimes in part do to the capitalist dominance of the USA. Instead of asking for a bailout ( it's convienant that the economic climates lends itself well to my choice of words ) the country would declare war on the US including an invasion, immediately surrender and collect money ( The Marshall plan ) to rebuild.
But here's the thing: They Won!

Our best hope is that the war in Afghanistan drags on and that there are heavy losses on our side. This focuses the public's attentin when their kids are getting killed and maimed. Otherwise, no one cares about a bunch of vets who can't even organized themselves and bribe congressmen like the NRA. If you want justice in the USA it takes money directed into the hands of those who pull the levers of power.

Your statement may also not matter. If we are not UNITED in our cause ( like the NRA, excellent group to point out john ) then how will/can the public care? Sure, that once so proud American spirit has been doused by (IMHO) one of the tenets of our beliefs in the country and although it is not mentioned in our constituion most people think it is a handmaiden of democracy; CAPITALISM.

Although you do not use the word "capitalism" in your reply ( and i want to thank you john for adding your thoughts to this great spot that T-bird set up for US to post our thoughts about changing the system; thanks again to you also T-bird ) you do mention "...it takes money..." and we all probably agree on that fact. So money is in many ways the great equalizer. At some point i'd like to have a conversation about money and a few of the what it's that do or might happen differently if money was more available than it is. But as powerful as money is and as needed as money is there needs to be a strong and powerful conversation that lends itself to helping us and our brothers and sisters who are fighting the war they are asked to fight. But lets stay on money for a little while longer.

If doing the right thing is tied to money then at some point we need to get money to strategize the attack.
It's been said before but there is no amount of times that it must be spoken about if that's one of the things it will take to get the ball rolling and change to happen.

So if money is a given maybe we can talk at some point about getting the money to pay for the lobbtist, and or the agency that will script a plan of action. My guess is that a large contribution of money along with a passionate group of people is worth exploring. But another point that you make, that Berta said the Pete makes, and clearly others make has to do with the passion of our group compared to NRA, MADD, Gay activism etc. What is it about veterans that keeps us from forming into a powerful group working for the same cause?

i'm not asking this rhetorically. i would like to hear some real answers, some suggestions, and i'd like to here veterans signing up to do something and not to strengthen the image of a group of peoploe who can't get it together.

There are many risks. One of the most obvious risks is getting someone upset about the goal or the object of the goal so they make an effort to derail it before it get's started. It seems clear to me based on the feedback that i'm getting here that something is "wrong" with my thinking, with my plan, with X. It doesn't matter if it is sound or if it has a thread of hope embedded in it, for now it doesn't cost one penny to kill it by discouraging me to outright, or wishing me well but begging off. Those things are very easy to do and if the hearding cats analogy itself has a thread of truth in it then clearly THIS is our biggest challenge and it doesn't have to take money unless it's for a Veterans Detox program or something similar.

It's so easy to trigger someone now-a-day who doesn't like what it is that you are saying or what they think that you are saying ( that's as bad or even worse than saying it ) that each time i make an entry i stop and read it over a half dozen times or more. On the plus side of that i sometimes find these great stories, articles, or information that i'd never know about if i didn't look up the spelling of a word or the check the words meaning to " be clear " ( notice if you will how many people, especially politicans can't make a statement without saying " let me be perfectly 'clear' " So "clear" is a popular buzz words these days which ironically is often NOT so "clear" but instead is more of the same old BS now accentuated with the word "clear". There's a good example of this in the link posted below.

[sidebar: There is an important note IMHO to the meaning of the word clear . This is going out on a limb to say, however, most people are unaware of the roots of using this word in the context that most are using it. These politican's who use the word far too often prefacing just about anything they have to say with " let me be perfectly "clear"....use that word almost as often as they use the word: "the". It, once again in my opinion, is so overused that it's now almost a joke; you can wager before a speach or interview on how many times the interviewee and often then interviewer will use the word "clear" and another safe wager is that everyone at the round table will use it at least once if not a half dozen times or more. If you haven't noticed this please take note now and let me know if i'm not onto something here. And in hopes of avoiding a contemptuous challenge on this point please understand that i am open to feedback about anything but do not want to get sucked into a penny ante arguement that isn't worth the time or energy to waste time on. That said, the word "CLEAR" has been around and used by scientologist for years. It has also been adopted by several other persoanl growth programs to represent being free of the illusions and BS of everyday life and the living lies of the common folk aka "The Hoy Polloi" To be "clear" means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_(Scientology) ]

My question now is this: What will it take to get a vote of confidence and a willingness to join forces to march against the beast together?

And will anyone agree with me that it doesn't have to be a million person march ( although that would get their attention ) it just needs to be a group of vets who are willing to hammer out the model that will work?

Not to piss anyone off but it appears you guys are walking among all these trees and fail to see the forest in front of you. Not one has is thinking of how to attack this beast called VA. The damn thing is bullet proof and bomb resistant. The only thing that annoys it publicity, it clearly loves to live in the shadows to weave its sinister magic. We need to organize ourselves into a PR group putting members in front of every VARO with OUR message of what is being done to us. Recently diagnosed with CMML (a rare form of cancer, second bout with a cancer btw, I'm toying with the idea of just going down to the Philly VARO and setting up a little informational stand and dropping dead on their door step. I know, I KNOW, it sounds a little extreme but I'm willing to bet the ranch it'll get some lips flapping all over the place. Share your ideas with me about this. Anyone but me remember all those monks killing themselves during the Nam war? Anyone but me remember how that war stopped? It was the public demonstrations. Are we picking up on OLD ideas here?

About 10 years ago a Veteran in El Paso and New Mexico put up billboards calling the VA out and it worked.

Hey Joe when you go down to the philly VARO lemme know I head on down too. This is how it all starts!

Hello bbknor,

I'll throw an extra chair in the back of my pick-up and call you. I have to get a few things made up first before I can do this; posters, flyers, etc.. What part of the area you from btw?

Joe from Coatesville. My vascular is at the Philly Hosp. I work in Philly also.

I'm close to wearing creative costumes and picketing recruitment stations with a sign about the million vet backlog.

Nothing changes unless the right people feel some heat. I believe creative hell-raising is needed to bring that heat.

The reason returning vets get priority at Social Security is because they are higher in the mass media food chain. I don't have any beef with new,old or other veterans, but the reason so many waller in pain and poverty for years is because we haven't been raising enough stink about it.

How about some ideas other than letter-writing and the Standard Operating Procedures that have been ineffective?

Kelly,
Do you have anything to substantiate that "returning vets get priority at Social Security" ?
carlie

I could not even get local VVA to go down to the VARO and picket just to show that someone cares. They were afraid. I was not talking about blowing up the joint. Just informational picket. I offended them and the Prez of the VVA told me all the vets were just fine with the VA. Blacks in the south did not sit on their asses to let the whiteman free them. They marched and sat it, and did whatever it took to get freedom. The whites in Mississippi threw black children in jail and they kept protesting and marching. We are men and woman and yet we sit back and the VA screws us. We smile and tip our hats. We have to free ourselves from this abuse. Millions of vets and yet we are treated like trash.

Hi Carlie,

Here's the info from Social Security's site:

"Military service members can receive expedited processing of disability claims from Social Security. Benefits available through Social Security are different than those from the Department of Veterans Affairs and require a separate application. The expedited process is used for military service members who become disabled while on active military service on or after October 1, 2001, regardless of where the disability occurs."

http://ssa.gov/woundedwarriors/

You can pretty much figure this preference is because these warriors are getting the most press, so Their problems with the disability process would be prime time news. I welcome alternate theories.

I have no beef with them; if I qualified, I'd take advantage of that preference myself. It's not their fault that the system is such a mess and veterans are treated as disposable peons who can live in poverty for years since they are no longer 'of use'.

Like john999 says, the status quo doesn't change so long as those in power are comfortable.

We've gotta be the squeaky wheel.

Kelly are you the reincarnation of the Aussie badman Ned Kelly?

Kelly,
roger that - only it probably should read,
recently or newly returning vets get priority at Social Security.
Another OIF/OEF vet preference, another, in my opinion
dissing of Vietnam and Korea vets.
SSA should do this for all veterans that are requesting SSA Benefits
on an original SSA claim.

I must say tho, I do think the wounded warrior program, in general
is a good idea. I have two neighbors that are reaping some fantastic extra
bennies thru this program. One received an extra 50k due to his injuries,
from this program.

jmho,
carlie

Ha John,

that's the Other guy in Google. i got this name while doing some comedy in Alaska. The emcee said I was Notorious and started calling me that.

I was subsequently banned for life from performing there, so mebbe there's a lil truth to it

Ya Carlie, I'm all for helping vets of any era. I compete at the food bank with old women who were the 'enemy' when I enlisted. Here's to the vets!

John I have a professionally prepared sign (2'X4') that reads " VA UNFAIR TO VIETNAM ERA THAILAND VETERANS", I picketed the VARO Louisville, Kentucky last year for at least six times. They do notice you; but I still have 5 years old AO claim going to the Appeals Court for the second time. rthomass@insightbb.com.

Randall

I am a Veteran and an attorney who focuses on military disability benefits. I also am a member of the bar of the US Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. My practice at the CAVC is quite limited, though I did win the pro bono case that I litigated there. (I suspect my practice at the CAVC will grow as the DoD/VA Pilot program for disability cases matures). I am really writing to clarify the issue of how to approach this body of law.

While there is apparently a Due Process property interest in receiving Veterans Benefits (due to a recent case; I say "apparently" because this may be appealed in the future so we don't know the end of the story on this one yet), I do not think that VA law has much to do with what attorneys would think of as "Constitutional Law." The VA is an administrative agency, and the review of decisions in the courts are based on the agency action. For those who are interested in understanding the law of Veterans Benefits, it is probably best analyzed and thought of as a sub-field of "Administrative Law."

It is a very important point that attorneys who do not have a background or experience in this area of law may not be very helpful in prosecuting claims. Think of it like a doctor. If you have an eye problem, your very good and competent podiatrist will be of little help. He may be great for dealing with your foot problem, but it is an apples and oranges comparison.

"It is a very important point that attorneys who do not have a background or experience in this area of law may not be very helpful in prosecuting claims "

A good point counselor- and the reality is since the new June 20,2007 NOD regs came out-giving us all the right to hire attorneys with claims at the RO level-

many attorneys-who are new to the system-yet certainly wanted to represent vets due to the new attorney regs- have had a hard time fully getting up to speed on the vast area of VA case law and disability regs.

I used the recent court case Cushman and Shenseki- yesterday as one part of a letter to the Regional Counsel.

I was awarded DIC many years ago under FTCA (wrongful death) and in April I was awarded direct service connected death for my deceased husband.

It is unlike any other case the VA has ever had and even NVLSP (I have had long relationship with them as an advocate) agreed that direct SC death trumps the FTCA death.

I proved malpractice that was fatal in 1997- but further research I did provided me with the initial misdiagnosed condition-never once appearing in the veteran's medical record.
Diabetes mellitus due to AO contributing to death.

The VA still holds a six figure FTCA offset that they must refund to me.
The BVA mentioned this in a past BVA decision ( no offset can be held if I succeed in direct SC death of my husband) and M21-1 Part IV, CHange 219 March 2005 clearly spells it out as well.

My long point here is that- although I have plenty of respect for VA attorneys -- they were very smart and tough (and so am I)but they did at some point consider my medical evidence for the FTCA case- yet one of them up here at the Regional Counsel's office already misinterpreted the Offset regs in a phone call I made to him (he has some familiarity with me and the past FTCA case) and with a short letter and the evidentiary case law enclosed to them, perhaps I can now get this straightened out.

I hinged on the Due Process clause of the recent court decision and had to manipulate my specific situation into that clause-
However- you are right- this new court decision is only worth the way we can use it- It was icing on the cake in my request for the money VA owes me- I certainly enclosed the legal evidence that has already been established by the VA to get this offset returned to me.

it cannot bypass our need for probative evidence.

Any vet using this case to support a position with VA needs to fully read and re-read and assess what the case says.

We veterans and widows have always had "Due Process" which was heightened by the VCAA of 2000.

The VA however (and I told this poersonally to Chairman Filner H VAC) has turned the VCAA into a scam.

The BVA bears that point out -with thousands of remands that are due solely to violation of the VCAA.

I feel most veterans should rely more on the VCAA than on this court decision.And comply with the VCAA letter they get-if it is in fact compliant with the VCA Act.

Yet in some cases this court decisioncan become VERY helpful to claimants.

I wonder if the ROs even have a clue on Cushman V Shenseki yet.

JADMP

I see by your profile that you have been registered with Hadit for 2 years before you made your first post. We have had attorneys who post to Hadit in the past who have helped point Veterans in the right direction or give them some ideas or pointers.

You are welcome to post here as little or much as you want and I agree with the basis of your post completely.

I am wondering what your take of the direction that the new administration and VA are going.

It would seem to me that Lawyers who do Social Security might start to swoop in as there are a lot of claims that are going to be routine and easy to win for a good attorney.

Thanks for helping Veterans