So with this electronic signature stuff with SSA - where they fill out an application and read you all that stuff about making false statements and give you the paper you kind of sort of filled out to take home telling you to contact them in 10 days if you disagree with any of the statements.. which is considered to be 'electronically signed" by you (because they click the box that attests that they read you the stuff and you agreed with the answers).............
My Question is:
If they later AMEND that application, by changing one of the statements WITHOUT your knowledge or consent - would you call that falsifying documents? fraud?
I mean - if you notice that your claim file has an AMENDMENT saying I (as in you) wish to make the following change... (but YOU didn't make the change - or even know it was made...) but the amendment is supposedly "electronically signed by you .. (with your electronic signature attested to by the SSA employee who made the change without your knowledge, coincidentally on the very same day they were denying your claim) isn't that kind of WRONG?
Full Version: I Didn't Sign That!
Yes if you have a copy of the original one. But who did it would be the question?
Whomever entered their initials and office code into the system.
GN 00201.015 Alternative Signature Methods
C. Policy — Attestation
For Title II and Title XVI in-person applications and teleclaims, Title II and Title XVI amendments, Title XVI redeterminations, and other forms completed as part of the claims/appeals process, the interviewer confirms the proper applicant’s intent to file and sign the application and other forms, provides and reviews the penalty clause notice, and attests to the proper applicant’s intent to sign the application and other forms by annotating SSA records (i.e., MCS/MSSICS/RPS). The act of attesting to these facts is documentation of the proper applicant’s signature and is deemed equivalent to a signature.
When the issue “ATTEST” is displayed in the Issue field and a date is entered in the receipt field, MCS propagates the interviewer’s three position office code, a space, up to six letters of the interviewer’s last name, a comma, and the first initial to the Remarks field. The comma following the last name is a floating comma. If the last name contains fewer than six characters, the comma should immediately follow the last character of the last name (e.g., 216 Cox, N). The ATTEST issue(s) and interviewer’s name will be retained electronically and deemed equivalent to the signature for the application or amendment.
I noticed this when my son had his hearing. I even filed a statement asking that they waive the 10 days we had to correct any statement - because we had just become aware of it.
But now, when I am working on my letter to the OIG - I am looking up the regs - and to me that is just WRONG!!! Capital wrong, not little wrong. For a SSA employee to make a change in YOUR statement - and then attest to the fact that YOU made the change - NOT good!
To me he falsified a document in my son's claim.
My son's application stated "All the children were living with the deceased at the time of death." (Actually, my son was all the children..but you know how they just have their little checkboxes...)
The Amendment to Appplication states:
"I wish to change the following information on my application for Title ll / Title XVlll Benefits / Rights:
The following has been changed for a dependent child of the worker:
Name: XXXXXX
Living in same household with applicant: NO
No???????
Of course it was changed the same day my son's claim was adjudicated - and one of the bases they denied him on was that he was not "living with" my husband.
The application was changed to be more in accordance with the decision being made.
Now granted, the worker might have denied him anyway (since he wasn't willing to allow us to submit any evidence in support of the claim) - But still - to go in an falsify a document and attest that my son made the change and attest that my son intended to sign it - that is just downright WRONG!
This isn't near the largest thing this guy pulled - but on some of the issues it is just my word against the word of the person who falsifies documents.
Free < signed electronically
GN 00201.015 Alternative Signature Methods
C. Policy — Attestation
For Title II and Title XVI in-person applications and teleclaims, Title II and Title XVI amendments, Title XVI redeterminations, and other forms completed as part of the claims/appeals process, the interviewer confirms the proper applicant’s intent to file and sign the application and other forms, provides and reviews the penalty clause notice, and attests to the proper applicant’s intent to sign the application and other forms by annotating SSA records (i.e., MCS/MSSICS/RPS). The act of attesting to these facts is documentation of the proper applicant’s signature and is deemed equivalent to a signature.
When the issue “ATTEST” is displayed in the Issue field and a date is entered in the receipt field, MCS propagates the interviewer’s three position office code, a space, up to six letters of the interviewer’s last name, a comma, and the first initial to the Remarks field. The comma following the last name is a floating comma. If the last name contains fewer than six characters, the comma should immediately follow the last character of the last name (e.g., 216 Cox, N). The ATTEST issue(s) and interviewer’s name will be retained electronically and deemed equivalent to the signature for the application or amendment.
I noticed this when my son had his hearing. I even filed a statement asking that they waive the 10 days we had to correct any statement - because we had just become aware of it.
But now, when I am working on my letter to the OIG - I am looking up the regs - and to me that is just WRONG!!! Capital wrong, not little wrong. For a SSA employee to make a change in YOUR statement - and then attest to the fact that YOU made the change - NOT good!
To me he falsified a document in my son's claim.
My son's application stated "All the children were living with the deceased at the time of death." (Actually, my son was all the children..but you know how they just have their little checkboxes...)
The Amendment to Appplication states:
"I wish to change the following information on my application for Title ll / Title XVlll Benefits / Rights:
The following has been changed for a dependent child of the worker:
Name: XXXXXX
Living in same household with applicant: NO
No???????
Of course it was changed the same day my son's claim was adjudicated - and one of the bases they denied him on was that he was not "living with" my husband.
The application was changed to be more in accordance with the decision being made.
Now granted, the worker might have denied him anyway (since he wasn't willing to allow us to submit any evidence in support of the claim) - But still - to go in an falsify a document and attest that my son made the change and attest that my son intended to sign it - that is just downright WRONG!
This isn't near the largest thing this guy pulled - but on some of the issues it is just my word against the word of the person who falsifies documents.
Free < signed electronically
QUOTE (Pete53 @ May 29 2009, 10:36 AM) 
Yes if you have a copy of the original one. But who did it would be the question?
I hope that you get this straightened out. Is it bad enough to cause a denial?
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