Just curious how the advice differs from VA to VA (and civilian tdocs/pdocs as well). When you mention that you are suicidal or even have a plan...what do they say?

The new tdoc (therapist) I'm seeing at Dayton now is a "suicide prevention therapist"....yet she won't use the scary "S" word..... . Today I asked her what I can do when I keep getting these suicidal thoughts (with a plan) in my head. Her response? "Think of something else"
LMAO!!! Wow.......gee, why didn't I think of that many, many years ago and life would just be so much easier.....(sarcasm)...is she truly out of her mind???

Anyone else? I truly hope that if anyone else needs this kind of advice, that they are getting good help.

If you have a plan they have a room for you. If you do have a plan then you need to be inside. Suicidal ideation is one thing, but having a plan is something else. Same with homocidal ideation and having a plan to kill someone. Big difference.

They don't seem to mind that I have a plan. I've told them what it is. And they also know that I have the means at home to carry it out. I'm not saying this as an immediate threat....just letting folks know how dense the mental health folks are at Dayton...and hoping other's have better tdocs/pdocs than I.

Purple

Do you have any other insurance that would pay for in-patient stay at a mental ward for a few days? The VA is negligent. If you want to go in as an in-patient go to your congressman's office and tell you are so depressed you want to kill yourself, and you don't trust yourself to drive get home. I bet you are admitted that day. Let the waterworks flow! The VA is being negligent and they need to be spanked.

Nope....no other insurance. And I'm sure the VA wouldn't pay for it.
Now you (not you personally) but the collective members here know why I'm making such a big deal out of getting turned away at the walk-in mental health clinic.

Today I think I'm ok. But that can change at a moments notice....and that's what I told them. I just get the deer in the headlights look.

Thanks john....It helps to talk to someone who isn't scared to talk about it.

If someone really wants to commit suicide than they usually will do it. However, when someone who has kids and loves them I remind them that if they commit suicide than it will be likely that their kids will do it also.

I try to get people to promise to see someone first and talk about it. And I try to remind that no batter how bad life sucks at this particular m0ment that things will change and suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Think about it how many times have you felt suicidal and than felt a lot better after some time had passed.

You owe it to family and friends not to do that.

They say suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem.

It's just when the problems keep coming in waves....they don't seem so temporary.

Suicide already runs in my family. My grandfather (dad's side) and uncle (mom's side) both did it. I've had 5 attempts that have landed me in the hospital.
Sometimes when my mind gets really bad....I can't think of anything else but wanting out.

[quote name='purple' date='Jun 19 2009, 03:28 PM' post='150217']
Just curious how the advice differs from VA to VA (and civilian tdocs/pdocs as well). When you mention that you are suicidal or even have a plan...what do they say?

Well they usually don't say too much to me for a while just let me talk a bit
and then when I'm finished they will say something to keep a conversation going.
Next - the office door opens up and the sheriff comes in and give me a ride to
be admitted to the flight deck for upto 72 hours.

Hang in there.
carlie

Out of nowhere.
trying to "think of something else"?
well that just pisses me off even more.

Mind going 1000mph.
No one knows how to slow down
the thoughts.
They just take over...and it sucks.

Well, my brother-in-law told everyone who would listen that He would someday commit sucide; He had tried several different meds, from a private doctor, for His Bipolar Disorder, but He didn't like the loss of creativity that He experienced. Long story short...He shot Himself 2 months ago while my sister was gone.

He lost the desire to live, and He chose a very perminate solution. I was put in the hospital lock up at the VA when asked if I wanted help.
Boondoc

Very sorry to hear about your brother-in-law.

When and if I talk about it, they want to lock you up. I feel safer talking to the guy here at Hadit.

That's a better answer than I got, I was at a PTSD exam were they examiner asked me do you have suicidal thoughts? I said yes all the time and his reply was , "Well why don't you just do it?" I said what? The way he said it was as if he was encouraging me to commit suicide (without a doubt). I said well thanks for the vote of confidence Doc. He says well I mean, I didn't mean it that way I said yeah right and moved on to the next question....give me a GAF of 41and he also gave me a GAF of 63 for depression on my back and he thought my problems could be from PTSD but I was missing certain symptoms so more than likely I had a Border Line Disoder,lol what an A-hole.. Almost screwed me on this one but his Q were wierd..What I mean to say is I feel your pain for sure....YOG

Purple, hand in there, I need you to be on this forum to help me with
my PTSD, and thought of suicide. you have good input, and I watch your post.
I am relutant to tell of mu suicidal thoughts. That because of my exterior,
not letting the true feeling being exposed.

The VAMC Clinic help me with my PTSD, and thought of suicide. Good luck and keep with the counselling.....................Always ask for help when you need it.

Thanks purple!

I think that some of the doctors are so used to hearing patients say what they feel that they become immuned to hearing the words. Then when not taken seriously... a certain percentage do go on to commit sucide.
I encourage everyone who is so desperate that sucide is an option to seek help from civilian doctor if need be. Life isn't easy for most of on here, harder for some, easier for others, but I know that there are a lot of good people on this forum who really do understand to a better degree than most, and want to help!

My brother-in-law couldn't get His medication ajusted to the point that He wasn't so delusioned anymore.
It is a extremely perminate solution to a problem that might have been corrected with the correct doctor and medication, and therapy.

Hang in there...

Boondoc

Here, Here!

Boondoc

If the VA believes that you have a concrete plan to kill yourself they have a duty to protect you from yourself. I mean to commit you on the spot. If they think you are going to kill someone immediately, or have such a plan then they have a duty to call the cops. All doctors have this responsibility.

I disagree with the thing about if you committ suicide, so will your kids. My grandfather committed suicide because he had a terminal illness....none of his children did. My uncle on the other side of the family committed suicide because his wife had just died and he was devastated...none of his children did. So I don't think it always happens and I hate it when therapists throw that in my face...I think they just try to scare ppl rather than help.

The lady I'm seeing now at the Vet Center is actually listening to me. She isn't so scared when I talk about my suicidal feelings and even plans. We talk about it, what causes it, what brings it on, etc. That really helps.

........so I'm sitting in one of the "group gropes" at my local VAMC and out of the clear, blue sky, the LSW asks ME, point blank, in front of 12 other guys, if I was having thoughts of suicide. No indication from me to lead up to that question. MOF, I was being my usual quite self.
I told her, after trying to decide if I wanted to "go there" in front of all these guys, "Yes, I am."
Know what she did?
She turns to the other members of my group and says "See, even the quitest, stronger, members of this group have "private" thoughts."
And then we went on to talk about some problem one of the members was having with his teen-aged son...........................................

That was the ONLY time I was asked that question. And, it is the ONLY time I will ever answer that question.

I have thoughts of suicide. I have picked out a place. I have picked out a "method".

So what?

Screw 'em and the pony they rode in on.

I am pleased that your being listened to and taken seriously!
I'm "hear, hearing" hanging in there until you find a way to stop the the sucidal idealations.
My brother-in-law, who recently shot himself, has several bloodline family members who have committed sucide too. I believe it's the genetic mental illness, and the individuals inablilty to cope with life that causes familar sucide.

True...when the suicidal feelings take over....there isn't anything that seems "temporary". That's another one of those sayings that gets under my skin.

Maybe so but things will change and people need to know that

when i first started going to the va in the early 90's, if it came up, they would check me in to the mental ward, which i know was the safest place for me to be. i remember i had to get through the suicidal thoughts before i could see a therapist, couldn't have therapy until i was emotionally stable and staff, made sense to me.

i'm afraid for me when suicidal thoughts plagued me the only thing that worked for me is going into the hospital and getting stabilized.

seems like not a particularly helpful thing for your therapist to say.

Purple
The biggest problem w/suicide you leave behind many issues incomplete. You have the out but not the love ones you leave behind ,they have the problem of having to clean up your loose ends. Your Family is left waking your body, burial and then hopefully your insurance will cover suicide, if not who will pick up your tab and can they afford it? You took the easy way out and left all the hard decisions to your family & friends. I lost my wife in Jan/09 and was very depressed, however life must go on and I’m sure she would want it that way.Good Luck w/your life

Later...

Sgt White:

Sorry for your loss. I have lost 7 close family or friends in a little over 3 months. My wife is heart broken over the loss of her sister a little over a month ago.I get sad over it but I accept the fact that I have no control over what happens to me. I can only control how I react to it. I have chosen to try and support my wife in her grief and others affected by the loss. No one can really understand how anyone else feels.

Depression is very difficult to have but I think harder for the family and friends to deal with.

Maybe talking about it helps at least I think it does for many.

If anyone on Hadit is thinking about suicide please ask for help. Our lives affect many more than we know.We lose far to many to disease and illness as it is now.

God loves us all and I love all who post on Hadit.

You know I was just sitting here, thinking about a my Mental Health Visit
Each day, they ask about suicide, they are concerned about guns I sleep with
I don't have aplan, and would not use Guns. Who going clean up the mess, not me I would be gone
A question they should ask, if you were going to Kill yourself, how would you do it
I know I would use medication, just go to sleep for the last time, and it would be over
With this being said, they ask me about suicide, and then always give more and more drugs
Get my point!!!???

SgtJWhite-
Thank You.

sgmdae-you are correct...the VA knows what my method would be, yet they continue to provide me with large amounts of meds...even the pharmacy asks me if i would like 90-day supplies of my meds vs a 30-day supply. they are so clueless. but i'm doing a little better now, comes & goes.

Purple, it doesn't make sense to me,
I am new this, and now admit to a problem
Each time I go to appt, I feel a little more depressed
Everyone is focus on the rating, and not the issue of my tours of RVN and PTSD
Now there trying find way a stray away from PTSD, and give a DX of Bi-Polar
Treat me for the wrong things, and I will get no help

i've been trying to get ptsd help at my VA for about 10 years and nothing...so now i'm going to the Vet Center, so far i'm very impressed with them.

VA center is good for me also, he is concerned about my health and well being.
My opinion of the Mental Clinic, is take our time, everyone has a problem, have some meds, come back in two weeks. Today I told her they were not doing any good, and she give different ones, and tells me I need more sleeep.

Suicide Is Not An Option For You, purple...You have young impressionable children, and friends that care about you very much. You have more friends and supporters here on Hadit than you are aware of. If you committed suicide, I assure you, your kids would have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives. It could lead them down a path to that same end themselves. As you know, thinkers of suicide, discount or disregard the collateral damage caused by their desperate act. IMHO,...Professional help, outside the VA, is needed ASAP.


The sun will rise tomorrow...

I believe I have found a good therapist at the Vet Center...she truly cares and knows what she is doing. I told her how much it helps me to be able to e-mail when things are really going bad for me, so she gave me her e-mail address and said "e-mail away!". My last VA therapist refused to let me e-mail her.
My new therapist also isn't afraid to openly talk about my suicidal thoughts and feelings with me; which helps quite a bit.

Purple:

I am glad and I think Vet Centers are great. They are Independent of VA mess also

I am happy for you purple.... In the 1980's I helped open Vet Centers. Our motto was "Help with out Hassles". I visited Vet Centers in several states, and volunteered thousands of hours on the project. It was just suppose to be a temporary program. I helped lobby congress to expand the program and wrote some of the language in the legislation proposal from a national veterans organization. Your post makes me feel that I was not wasting my time. Best wishes for a great life. You deserve one

I went to Vet Center on the recommendation of Had it. Its the only think I look forward too so far
Do they have any influence on your VA process, ie C&P
Mine wanted to make sure they were listed on my claim

Yes the vet centers are a part of the VA and carry weight on your claim. It can help. However, the C&P is a different beast. Then there is the Rater over at the VARO. There is where the incompetence and apathy runs rampant.

If you really want help find a private therapist and work with him/her. My private psychologist kept me from dying, or being locked up, or ending up a drug addict, or skid row bum. What the Army vomited back to my parents after I got out of the service was someone who could not function. The VA did nothing to help me. I got back on my feet after about 5 years. I always had problems afterward, but I was able to deal with it for a while.

I thought you had to have PTSD to go to one of the "Vet Centers"?

No you don't. ...It's been over fifteen or twenty years since I have been to a Vet Center. Lots of other help takes place there too. Group and one on one sessions are not limited to PTSD only. Mostly PhD's, MSW's etc. work there.

From the Vet Center Website:
"If you, or a family member, served in any combat zone and received a military campaign ribbon (Vietnam, Southwest Asia, OEF, OIF, etc.) you are eligible for Vet Center services."

However, I have received services, and I do not have a military campaign ribbon. They don't give ribbons for a lot of things...

Thanks for checking out the web site, Bonzai. Interesting sit-rep... I'll check it out. However, like I said (posted), It's been almost two decades since I have stepped into a Vet Center. I know a Korean War vet who goes there on a regular basis, now. So unless the law has been changed again, I believe that they would help any vet that walked in the door. Back in the old days, it was called the Vietnam Vet center, and catered only to Vietnam era vets. The offices were sponsored by the VAMC, however they were strategically placed in storefront locations to help what the civilians and the VA called, those "Crazy Vietnam Veterans". The idea was to reach out to the Vietnam era vets that experienced the cold shoulder of an ungrateful nation, as well as, an obsolete disfunctional VA system, and would not step foot in a VA facility. It was a different world, back then. You younger guys and gals have it a lot better, now... LOL . I would suggest LarryJ should drop in and check it out. They could use your help.

Thanks for checking out the web site, Bonzai. Interesting... Your right, however if you look at the dates of service, there is only a few gaps in time. I'll give them a call on Monday and find out the deal. I just called now and no one answered the phone, not even a message.???

I agree with john999. A private therapist, ASAP is the way to go if you are feeling suicidal.

They also provide help to any vet who is a victim of Military Sexual Trauma.
The Vet Centers can access your VA medical/mental health records, but the VA cannot access any Vet Center records as they do not keep electronic records and those that do, do not allow the VA access.

I went to the Vet Center in Dallas during the early 90's. I was not service connected for anything but flat feet and I served in Viet Nam era in Germany. I was accepted and went for over a couple of years. We had group and an old Hadit Member and I were in the same group.It was the best counciling experience I have ever had

The things that made the Vet Center appealing to me is that they were Vet friendly. They did not report anything you did to VA unless you wanted them to do it. They were fiercely independent. It was a whole different atmosphere when you went there for group.

Hmmmmmm? Sounds like something I could "deal" with.

See, ya larn new thingeys daily on here!