I have been unemployed for over 20+ yrs. after becoming SC disabled currently @ 60 %.
Reason being, have had numerous MH problems, Chronic pain,depression, anixity, flashbks, insomnia, besides constant medication and substance abuse problems, secondary to SC injury.(traumatic Laceration of achilles tendon and nerves) when struck/attacked with a power- lawnmower from behind by another unknown active duty soldier, while in AIT. I spent almost 16 months in an army hosp. due to said injury, and subsequently was ret.(med. RET) @ the age of 19. I could'nt file for SS. or actually denied , as i did'nt have enough work credits.
I continue to have the same problems if not worst, and have been denied SC for PTSD even tho I feel it is presumtuous that PTSD would occur from any like injury, ie. traumatic and serious( darn near severerd my leg off)I filed for IU in 2006 considering I have been unemployed all my life and was denied. any suggestions would be considered. thanks

rikkor - 1st thing, reapply for SSDI, using the either the day after you were retired from the military as your date of disability onset or the date of the injury. At 19yo, you need less quarters and if you became disabled prior to age 22 your SSDI is based on your father's SS account. You will probably be denied and need to appeal up to the ALJ level, to win, but it can be done. Also, if you can get a PTSD diagnosis and you weren't represented by counsel on your previous SSDI claim, you may still be able to appeal that. I'd consider getting an atty to represent you for SSDI. You can check at http://www.nosscr.org.

On the VA claim, you'll need to secure your SS employment records, to comfirm that you haven't worked all those yrs. This is excellent evidence, especially in the SSDI claim but also in the VA TDIU claim. I think you can win a claim for PTSD but will need a diagnosis of PTSD to get it. You might try using a Vet Center for MH treatment. If you have tri-care, or whatever it might be called these days, you could see someone privately.

What percentage were you retired at?

pr

I think you are going the wrong way with MH. PTSD is a sticky point with the VA, you should just focus on depression or anxiety.

Have you tried Vocrehab? That is my suggestion. You need a pattern of working and trying to work.

One issue is that the you have never worked. You have not shown the VA that you cannot work, you have only shown them that you are not working.. there is a difference. Also they only consider your service connected conditions.. If you have Non service-connected conditions, that affect your ability to work, then you are not going to win IU. Your posting states that it is your MH conditions that impact your ability to work, not your SC issues.. So you need to get a SC mental health condition..

I will say that I won my IU on physical issues, not mental, even though my mental conditions have a higher rating.

I'm going to disagree w/airborne18. You had an in service incident that potentially could cause PTSD, so I would go w/that. I've been dealing w/PTSD claims for 20 yrs, including my own. "My feeling" is that airborne18 doesn't feel your traumatic injury was severe enough to cause PTSD. Listen to all the info offered here at Hadit.com and use your own judgement. jmo

pr

PR,

He has already been denied PTSD. I believe he has a mental health disorder from the trauma. I had an accident in the military and have a mental health disorder..

But the issue is specifically calling it PTSD. They are jerking around combat vets with PTSD claims, so why would anyone think that they wouldn't jerk around peacetime vets?

I was diagnosed with PTSD due to my trauama. But when I filed for it, my NSO filed for "any mental disorder".. and the rating that came back was for anxiety, not PTSD.

I really do not disagree with you, just there is a subtle difference in claiming PTSD vs depression or anxiety on the veterans side, but it is a big difference to the VA. PTSD is a fight, where as a general mental health condition is not.


I thiink the big hurdle is filing for it 20 years after the incident, especially if there is not a treatment history.

airborne18 - okay! I just feel that he has a verifiable stressor(nexus), which many combat vets don't have. The 20 yrs later thing is the "P" in PTSD, ie: "Post." Lets see, I left VN in 9/67 and never realized there was anything wrong w/me until the late 80's. Never had any treatment between then and when I filed but did have the appropriate social history. Perhaps he should file for a PTSD/anxiety disorder. My concern there is that I know of no cured PTSD cases but I'm sure the VA will "find" a cure for anxiety. We can disagree. BTW, I went thru jump school in 6/65 at Benning and was a 11B4P, w/the 1st Bde (Abn), 1st Cav, 7/65-9/67. Airborne, ATW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pr

All The Way Bro.... So my question is.. how does he salvage his PTSD claim at this point?? appeal his denial?? Vet Center will not deal with non-combat veterans.. he might have eligibility due to his service dates.. I know I am not eligible.

rikkor, the next time you are at the VAMC go to the release of information office and request a copy of your mental health records and progress notes. This may take some time but this is what you need. Some VAMCs don't like to release this information out to patients but if you persist they will. My point here is, have you been diagnosed with a mental disorder and what was/is it. To be granted service connection you must first have to be diagnosed in the military and have a current diagnoses and go from there. If you are being treated by the VA they should have a diagnoses and you can also contact other hospitals and emergency rooms where you were to get those records to find your diagnoses. Some may not agree but Va will only pay compensation for the mental disorder that best describes your condition. It really doesn't matter if it is called depression, PTSD, mood, or anxiety disorder they all follow the same rating depending on the severity of your symptoms.

You can also claim depression due to your service connected conditions. This may take some work on your behalf VA may or may not have all these records especially the record (s) of suicidal tendencies

Any vet w/ptsd is entitled to Vet Ctr counseling, as is/are the family members of a ptsd vet. He can salvage his claim by appealing the denial. He can, as you suggested, also call it anxiety disorder, if he chooses. I helped a friend, VN vet win, recently, but he applied for PTSD and they changed it to anxiety disorder, claimed as PTSD, cuz he didn't meet all the PTSD criteria and awarded him 30%. The thing is they verified his stressors for PTSD and I don't know that you need stressor verification for anxiety disorder. AATW!!!

pr

airborne,
Vet Centers provide full services and deal with non-combat vets all the time.
Did you attempt to have services provided at a Vet Center and they denied you
for some reason?
carlie

rikkor - I believe PTSD became an accepted diagnosis in 1981, in the DSM-III. I would request complete copies of your VA medical records and your VA claims file (c-file) and then look for errors in the original rating or any subsequent rating. Once you get copies of your records, I would also look for any mention of you being unable to work being noted. I'd also request an increase in your current VA compensation. Additionally, I'd continue w/your TDIU claim/appeal. Monday, you should contact an SSDI atty and your nearest Vet Ctr. You should bear in mind that VA medical records are not associated w/your c-file unless you tell them about them. The VA does this so they can honestly deny claims, as there is no evidence of any treatment, in the record. It's a great system for screwing vets. jmo

pr

If you are 60% SC and one disability is at least 40% you have enough for IU now. File for it regardless. If you can't work due to SC disability file for IU. Don't wait for a PTSD diagnosis. I have been diagnosed with everything from schizophrenia to bi-polar, panic disorder and PTSD. It does not matter if you can't work because of it. My rating included all four of those disorders, plus a few. I got 70% and IU.

You must be 60% for one condition or 70% with at least one condition at 40% to qualify for IU. You and always file for extra schedular. While the incident was traumatic,filing for depression secondary to your already service connected conditon seems to be a better claim.

I actually never tried, because http://www.vetcenter.va.gov/Eligibility.asp clearly states you have to be a war zone veteran, which I am not.

Sharon, please don't continue to spread the myth that "You must be 60% for one condition or 70% with at least one condition at 40% to qualify for IU." The reason I say that is, even though it'll be an extra-schedular rating, it'll still be IU and doesn't require the requisite 60% or 70%. The VA continually perpetuates this myth and by doing so discourages qualified veterans from applying for and receiving their just award.

pr

Here are the facts
§ 4.16 Total disability ratings for compensation based on unemployability of the individual.
[img]http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/e/ecfr/graphics/ret-arrow-generic-grey.gif[/img] top (a) Total disability ratings for compensation may be assigned, where the schedular rating is less than total, when the disabled person is, in the judgment of the rating agency, unable to secure or follow a substantially gainful occupation as a result of service-connected disabilities: Provided That, if there is only one such disability, this disability shall be ratable at 60 percent or more, and that, if there are two or more disabilities, there shall be at least one disability ratable at 40 percent or more, and sufficient additional disability to bring the combined rating to 70 percent or more. For the above purpose of one 60 percent disability, or one 40 percent disability in combination, the following will be considered as one disability: (1) Disabilities of one or both upper extremities, or of one or both lower extremities, including the bilateral factor, if applicable, (2) disabilities resulting from common etiology or a single accident, (3) disabilities affecting a single body system, e.g. orthopedic, digestive, respiratory, cardiovascular-renal, neuropsychiatric, (4) multiple injuries incurred in action, or (5) multiple disabilities incurred as a prisoner of war. It is provided further that the existence or degree of nonservice-connected disabilities or previous unemployability status will be disregarded where the percentages referred to in this paragraph for the service-connected disability or disabilities are met and in the judgment of the rating agency such service-connected disabilities render the veteran unemployable. Marginal employment shall not be considered substantially gainful employment. For purposes of this section, marginal employment generally shall be deemed to exist when a veteran's earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, as the poverty threshold for one person. Marginal employment may also be held to exist, on a facts found basis (includes but is not limited to employment in a protected environment such as a family business or sheltered workshop), when earned annual income exceeds the poverty threshold. Consideration shall be given in all claims to the nature of the employment and the reason for termination.

airborne18, you'll notice that it's a VA site posting that info. It wouldn't be the first time the VA mislead veterans, would it! A Vet Center would at least do an assessment, probably give a diagnosis and do a referral if they couldn't treat. Besides, it would be discriminatory, especially when they are also treating MST victims, in addition to theater personnel.

pr
AATW

pete992, please post only complete accurate information. Below is the complete text of 4.16:

[Code of Federal Regulations][Title 38, Volume 1][Revised as of July 1, 2008]

From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access

[CITE: 38CFR4.16][Page 366]

TITLE 38--PENSIONS, BONUSES, AND VETERANS' RELIEF CHAPTER I--DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS PART 4_SCHEDULE FOR RATING DISABILITIES--Table of Contents Subpart A_General Policy in Rating Sec. 4.16 Total disability ratings for compensation based on unemployability of the individual.

(a) Total disability ratings for compensation may be assigned, where the schedular rating is less than total, when the disabled person is, in the judgment of the rating agency, unable to secure or follow a substantially gainful occupation as a result of service-connected disabilities: Provided That, if there is only one such disability, this disability shall be ratable at 60 percent or more, and that, if there are two or more disabilities, there shall be at least one disability ratable at 40 percent or more, and sufficient additional disability to bring the combined rating to 70 percent or more. For the above purpose of one 60 percent disability, or one 40 percent disability in combination, the following will be considered as one disability: (1) Disabilities of one or both upper extremities, or of one or both lower extremities, including the bilateral factor, if applicable, (2) disabilities resulting from common etiology or a single accident, (3) disabilities affecting a single body system, e.g. orthopedic, digestive, respiratory, cardiovascular-renal, neuropsychiatric, (4) multiple injuries incurred in action, or (5) multiple disabilities incurred as a prisoner of war. It is provided further that the existence or degree of nonservice-connected disabilities or previous unemployability status will be disregarded where the percentages referred to in this paragraph for the service-connected disability or disabilities are met and in the judgment of the rating agency such service-connected disabilities render the veteran unemployable. Marginal employment shall not be considered substantially gainful employment. For purposes of this section, marginal employment generally shall be deemed to exist when a veteran's earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, as the poverty threshold for one person. Marginal employment may also be held to exist, on a facts found basis (includes but is not limited to employment in a protected environment such as a family business or sheltered workshop), when earned annual income exceeds the poverty threshold. Consideration shall be given in all claims to the nature of the employment and the reason for termination.(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 501)


b.) It is the established policy of the Department of Veterans Affairs that all veterans who are unable to secure and follow a substantially gainful occupation by reason of service-connected disabilities shall be rated totally disabled. Therefore, rating boards should submit to the Director, Compensation and Pension Service, for extra-schedular consideration all cases of veterans who are unemployable by reason of service-connected disabilities, but who fail to meet the percentage standards set forth in paragraph (a) of this section. The rating board will include a full statement as to the veteran's service-connected disabilities, employment history, educational and vocational attainment and all other factors having a bearing on the issue.[40 FR 42535, Sept. 15, 1975, as amended at 54 FR 4281, Jan. 30, 1989; 55 FR 31580, Aug. 3, 1990; 58 FR 39664, July 26, 1993; 61 FR 52700, Oct. 8, 1996]

Thanks,
pr

OK, I still feel that VA looks for the rating of one issue at 60% or a combine of 70%

You're right, they do and they do it intentionally. It is meant to dissuade, mislead and discourage the claimant from continuing w/their claim. They never mention 4.16(b) as it is part of their disinformation campaign and they actually require the claimant to ask for extra-schedular consideration, in order to receive it.

pr

I have a post here available under search called Stressors defined (I think that is what I called it)

The VA defines a PTSD stressor in some specific ways.

They can deny a PTSD claim if the stressor does not seem to comply with their definition of what a stressor is.

If a doctor has diagnosed you with PTSD due to this inservice event however- the VA should have given weight to that medical diagnosis.

I might have missed something- do you have a current diagnosis of PTSD?

The 60 % or 70 % IU criteria is BS.

If a veteran has service connected disabilities that render them unemployable it is the policy of the VA to award them TDIU.But they have to formally apply for it if the VA doesnt send them the TDIU form.

I always use 2 personal examples.

Had NSC vet getting PTSD care from private doc.He had never been to the VA.
This was years ago. I read over the TDIU form carefully to see what criteria the VA had put on the form that would prevent him from applying.
There is no criteria.
I sent him the TDIU form and suggested how to fill it out and what to attach to it.

The VA didnt have years of VA Med recs to sort through.He sent them some of his private records and they got the rest of them.
In four months he was awarded TDIU.

He had the sole things he needed for TDIU. Medical evidence of diagnosis and treatment records and an inservice nexus-(Vietnam combat vet)
His doctor had stated in his private records that his PTSD from his service had rendered him unemployable.I forget how he established his nexus.Maybe he had the CAR on his DD 214.

My husband same thing-
SSA award for PTSD 1993
30 % VA SC on appeal.1992.
VA award for 100% P & T PTSD - 1997.
His VA medical records and treatment records, as well as the SSA award - supported 100% for PTSD.(or TDIU same thing)

Gee I forgot a dear friend of mine- too-

NSC
applied for Bi Polar-early 1990s-around time I met him-
forgot to ask for his mil personnel records from NARA-
forgot to apply for TDIU
forgot to send the VA other pertinent documents
finally sent them his 201 file

(this was all done after lots of reminding and begging on my part-but he still forgot to send them the TDIU form.They never got it)-

Got call from him a few years ago that the BVA awarded him 100%- retro for 10 or 12 years-and he wanted to take me to lunch to celebrate-

in Europe!

Luckily- and this vet sure agreed with this- the VA made his wife his payee and declared him incompetent.

He said he could have spent the retro in a weekend.It was a symptoms of his manic bipolar service connected disability.

My long point- it is service nexus for whatever the disability is and then documented medical evidence that the service disability has rendered the vet completely unemployable -that makes a TDIU or 100% award succeed.

OK, still no problem, it clearly states that you don't need the 60% or the 70% and it is supposed to be the raters responsibility to ask for the extra-schedular consideration but we all know that this does not happen and if it does it is very rare. Let's keep in mind that the veteran has already applied for and denied PTSD and IU. Rikkor, What was the reasons for the decision in your denial letters from your denied IU and your denied PTDS claims? This may help us understand better.

There are also some instructions, in m-21 or wherever, for the adjudicator stating something to the effect that if the claimant doesn't request an extra-schedular rating, the rater should not refer the issue to the VACO. I had a vet who was unable to work and the VA kept denying him stating that 50% was the max rating for his condition. They did this for 15 yrs. We called a CUE and requested extra-schedular consideration and won. They gave him 3.5 yrs retro but he wouldn't appeal, for the additional 12.5 yrs, for fear of losing his now comfortable award. Too bad but nothing I could do. If we hadn't brought up the extra-schedular issue he'd still be at 50%, even tho he'd had Congressional help twice.

pr

I filed for IU when I was 30% SC. I could not work and I had been accepted for SSD. Both my private psychiatrist and psychologist said I could not work due to SC disability. The VA hemmed and hawed and came up with a "new" 70% rating. After another battle I got IU. Like most have been saying "If you can't work due soley to SC condition then you are entitled to IU". I was told that an inferred claim for IU required a 70% rating. This is nonsense. Anything in your VA record that indicates you can't work due to SC condition should trigger an IU claim.

hi berta and ty for ur input.
I have recently had to go in VAMC for emergency. IE depression, anixity, flashbks . insomnia, pain., suicidal ideations,
Phsyc. made refrences to PTSD, Also started me on PTSD meds. have not viewed med notes , ETC.
But in process of doing so, Im almost 100% sure She made a diagnoses of PTSD.
Im following up on monthly appts for same. IE therapist. behavioral clinic. Pain clinic
I believe these problems are def a nexus of my original injury and should be SC'ed as secondary
I also believe the combinations of symtoms have contributed to my not being able to work or function, in any normal setting and are presumtuous of the initial trauma from My SC injury and disabilities but I am not exactly clear on the IU issues.
I appreciate all your points and different views, as to how to proceed.
Wondering @ this point if I should get a specialized private attorney to represent me, as it is all so consuming, and believe it or not, a trigger just recalling and dealing with the VA etc.
I will go on monday and get my RET. ID card @ the US CG so maybe i can see a private Dr. using tri care.. god bless u all and thks again

I do belief that is what I stated. I would never discourage a veteran from filing any claim. Whereas I miss typed and it should have been can. I always tell the veteran that they can file for extra schedular. Try to give the best advise I can to the veteran. We are all in this together.

Thanks Philip, You can be my service officer any day.. Actually do have something I am going to email you about.. AATW, Marc

from decision/award reason for denial of IU
Eval of residuals ankle laceration of achilles tendon which was currently eval'ed@ 40%
disabling, is decreased to 30% eff. 03/2006 ( will follow-up with reasons for decisions next part)
we determined the following SC conditions haven't chged.
residuals of neurological involvement of right ankle,,,@20%
Donoer skin graft site,left lower leg,,,10%
NEW as of 04/17 2006
Straightening of the spine, discogenic diease @L5-S1 osteopenia, mild degenarative joint
diease, L5-S1, L2-L3 heniated disc and L4-L5 bulging disc with mild degenarative joint diease and secondary clinical left lumbar radiculopathy 10%
we determined that the following conditions were not related to your milatary service, (sry BullSxxt)
PTSD, Depressive disorder, bacterial infections of the bones.
We denied entitlement to (100/% rate becuz it wasn;t shown that you were unable to work as a result of your SC disabilities)?????

further ......
the eval of residuals ankle laceration of achilles tendon is decreased to 30% eff 04 /2006
The max assigned eval for ankylosis of ankle is 40% the evidence shows you cont to meet this req'ments, however you have an additional SC residual neurological involvement of the right ankle
rated @an additional 20% which combines to a 50 % evaluation. Both evaluations are protected by law and your current symptomatology is (permanant in nature) and therfore will not be reduced to a lower than 40 % combined evaluation. the rule for assigning combined ratings for disablities of extremity shall not exceed the rating for the amputation at the elective level, were amputation were to be performed. the maximum evaluation permit under this rule for a foot disability below the knee is 40% since you have combined evaluation right leg/right ankle condition greater than the evaluation of 40% permitted, we must reduce the evaluationof your service connection residual right ankle laceration of Achilles tendon to correct the combine evaluation to 40%
We can not make any adjustments to your combined evaluations or increase your compensation without 1st making this correction. since your overall combined evaluation of all your Sc disabilties remained 60 % after the reduction, we are not req'ed to declare the previously assigned evaluation in error, thks for your read will cont next part another day
rikkor

Rikkor

When you post you should use regular English grammer. Internet shorthand makes it hard to follow you. No offense, my friend.