I have found information on disable veterans being able to apply to federal jobs after the application process has already closed or to get a non-competitive appointment.

Anyone have any experience or information on this?

I understand the the point system advantage, this is something completely different. 

Special Noncompetitive Appointing Authorities for Veterans
Veterans' Readjustment Appointment (VRA)

The VRA is a special authority by which agencies can appoint an eligible veteran without competition. The candidate does not have to be on a list of eligibles, but must meet the basic qualification requirements for the position. The VRA is a convenient method of appointment for both the agency and the veteran. However, use of the authority is entirely discretionary and no one is entitled to a VRA appointment.

Service Requirements

You must have served on active duty for a period of more than 180 days all or any part of which occurred after August 4, 1964; (February 28, 1961, for those who actually served in Vietnam) AND received other than a dishonorable discharge.

Active duty is full-time duty in the Armed Forces, other than active duty for training.

You do not need to serve more than 180 days of active duty if you were discharged or released from active duty because of a service-connected disability.

Reserve and Guard members do not need to serve more than 180 days of active duty if (1) they were ordered to active duty under sections 12301 (a), (d), or (g); 12302; or 12304 of title 10, United States Code, and (2) their active duty was during a period of war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge is authorized. (For VRA eligibility, the term "period of war" includes Desert Storm/Shield, beginning August 2, 1990 and ending November 30, 1995.)

Qualification Requirements

You must meet the prescribed qualification requirements for the position, except that any written test requirement may be waived.

Military service is considered qualifying for positions at the GS-3 and below grade levels. Appointees to positions above the GS-3 grade level must meet qualification requirements, however agencies may waive any written test requirement.

Veterans' Preference Applies

When two or more VRA applicants are preference eligibles, the agency must apply veterans' preference as required by law. (While all VRA eligibles have served in the Armed Forces, they do not necessarily meet the eligibility requirements for veterans' preference under section 2108 of title 5, United States Code.)

Time Limit

By law, eligible Vietnam-era veterans -- those who served on active duty between August 5, 1964, (February 28, 1961, for those who actually served in Vietnam) and May 7, 1975 -- qualify for 10 years after their last discharge or separation from active duty.

Eligible post-Vietnam-era veterans (i.,e., who first began serving after May 7, 1975) qualify for 10 years after the date of their last discharge or release from active duty, or until December 31, 1999, whichever is later.

Eligible veterans with a service-connected disability of 30% or more have no time limit.

Training Requirement

If you are selected for a VRA and have less than 15 years of education, you must agree to participate in a training or educational program established by the agency.

Grade Level of Jobs That Can be Filled

Agencies can use the VRA authority to fill positions up through the GS-11 grade level and positions at the equivalent level under other pay systems, i.e. wage grade. The promotion potential of a position is not a factor.

Conditions of Employment

Veterans' Readjustment Appointments are in the excepted service. After 2 years of substantial continuous service in a permanent position under a VRA, your appointment will be converted to the competitive service, providing your performance has been satisfactory. (Veterans can also be given temporary or term appointments non-competitively using the VRA authority. The appointments are time-limited and do not lead to career jobs.)

How to Apply

You contact the Federal agency personnel office where you are interested in working to find out about VRA opportunities. Agencies recruit candidates and make VRA appointments directly.

30% OR MORE DISABLED VETERAN PROGRAM

Federal agencies have the authority, by law (section 3112 of title 5, United States Code), to give noncompetitive appointments to any veteran who has a service-connected disability of 30% or more. Like the VRA, this authority is discretionary with the agency. Unlike the VRA, however, there is no grade limitation.

Who is Eligible?

To be eligible you must be a disabled veteran who has a compensable service-connected disability of 30 percent or more and the disability must be officially documented by the Department of Defense or the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Conditions of Employment

You must serve initially under a temporary appointment not limited to 60 days or less. After successfully performing on such a temporary appointment, the Federal agency may convert you to a permanent position.

Conditions of Qualifications

You must meet all qualification requirements for any position to which you are appointed. This could include the requirement to achieve a passing score on a written test.

How to Apply

Contact the Federal agency Personnel office where you are interested in working to find out about opportunities. Agencies recruit candidates and make appointments directly. As a part of your application package, you will need a copy of a letter dated within the last 12 months from the Department of Veterans Affairs or the Department of Defense certifying receipt of compensation for a service-connected disability of 30% or more.

Disabled Veterans Enrolled In VA Training Programs

Disabled veterans eligible for training under the Department of Veterans Affairs' (VA) vocational rehabilitation program may enroll for training or work experience at an agency under the terms of an agreement between the agency and VA. The veteran is not a Federal employee for most purposes while enrolled in the program, but is a beneficiary of the VA. The training is tailored to individual needs and goals so there is no set length. If the training is intended to prepare the individual for eventual appointment in the agency (rather than just work experience), the U. S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) must approve the training plan. Upon successful completion, the veteran will be given a Certificate of Training showing the occupational series and grade level of the position for which trained. This allows any agency to appoint the veteran noncompetitively for a period of 1 year. Upon appointment, the veteran is given a Special Tenure Appointment which is then converted to Career-Conditional with OPM approval.

Well, you might be able to get a job at your local VAMC mopping the floor with such an appointment.

So this program is out there, does it ever comes into play....???? I am about to retire after 23 years of service. I have already started my VA claim. At a minimum I will be at 50% due to my Sleep Apnea. I have other issues also, to include Diabetes Type II and some other minor medical issues. After a stressful last few years of military life, I just want a job I can come to work and do a 9 to 5 so to speak. Will Voc Rehab help me find a job or I might as well do it myself. I am already throwing out resumes to various agencies (i.e. VA, Border Patrol). Just wondering if that don't pan out if I can rely on Voc Rehab at all.

Please, that VRA program is nothing but talk. It's who you know to get a job in the Fed.Govt. I tried it many times. No Help....................................

The postal service hires disabled vets as custodians all the time. If you want a job that the most difficult part of the day is to show up the PO is for you.

I hate to burst everyones bubble, but I actually work for a DOD agency. I survive by medication! We need Contracting personnel, and to qualify you must have a college degree, actually a business degree, or another degree with 24 hours of business. We are bringing on board a young Veteran that barely meets the qualifications. There were a lot of people that beat him on education and experience, but he earned this job in so many other ways. Once, he comes on board, he will start at a GS-7 and automatically go to a GS-11, after training and getting some experience. While it does help to know someone, you still must be qualified for that position.

Papa

I was recently rated at 30% and would like to go back to school using Voc Rehab to get a college degree to eventually be employed by the Federal Government. I already have a AA degree, but realize i will need to get a bachelors degree to make more money. Was originally considering a Business degree; as it is faster; but now i am looking into a construction management. Does the type of bachelors degree matter?

Chris111,

Do you know where in the federal service you would like to work? I do not think the feds do much construction work, as they contract it out. The reason that I'm asking about where, is that you may want to tailor your degree to that area of the government. You may want to make sure that you have at least 24 hours of business credit with your construction management degree, that way you can get into the government overseeing the contractor's work as a Project Manager or a Contract Manager.

Papa

Unless its a specialty any degree helps.After your work a few years your work experience is the most important.

Good Luck I think that you have a good plan.

What part of the country are you in? You want to try and get in a upward training program, you would start off as say a GS5 or 7 and reach a guarnteed 11 or 12. After that you would compete for the next grade. It does not hurt to know someone in civil service. Also, make sure you take every advantage that your Veteran status gives you, you have earned it.

Papa

Federal jobs are not easy to get even for disabled vets. I worked for the VA and the post office. I found mobility inside these organizations depended more on who you know rather than what you know. I was offered a job as a AFT agent, but did not want to chase moonshiners and gun runners in Kentucky. Most openings you see posted are already filled by insiders. The feds put a person in a job that is vacant and then when the official opening comes up then they put the "most qualified" person in the job. The most qualified person is the guy or girl who has been doing it for a year already. Get a degree in something real like accounting or pharmacy and you can work lots of places. Really, the feds are awful. Nepotism is rampant and the good old boy network rules the roost. I worked for them because I needed a job with good insurance.

John999

You mean you did not want to chase my family around the hills of Kentucky.

Papa

You could look around at http://www.usajobs.gov/ and see what is in demand, and interests you.

BoonDoc

BoonDoc, Thank you so much for this reminder, I should have thought about this on my first reply. If CHRIS111 has not completed school, and may want to look under USAJOBS for the SEP Program. This is for people who are going to school, high school and college. They work so many hours, gain experience and make some $$$$ also.

Papa

Moonshine, that brings back memories.
John you are correct about the nepotisim and other events that go on in the Government hiring practices.

J

hi i applied for a supervisory position in DC back a couple of months ago and the status reads "Referred as a Veterans Equal Opportunity Act 105-339 eligible under competitive procedures". My question is how many for levels are there until i know I've been selected?
The position is WS- 09/09, not sure what the 09/09 means?

Chris

You should get a letter telling you if you have been hired or not. If it is competative position they give you an edge being a vet, but there are many other factors to consider. You may or may not get the job depending on the competition. Federal jobs are hard to get due to incredible sleezy employment practice. Usually, the feds have someone in the position doing the job already. They automatically become best qualified. I am saying don't hold your breath on this unless you have the inside track. I worked for the VA many years ago. I had a college degree and put in for many promotions. I got beat out by insiders every time. It is not what yo know but who you know inside the institution.

When I got out of the service I went to work as aq supply technician for the Department of Defense Dependent Schools as a GS-5 DAC (Department of the Army Civilian) It was basically primarily open for dependents but if you pumped in the right language, hit it off with the interviewer.....plain luck you got the job. Being a veteran has never played any part in me working for the government. Depending on your age and education i would scour the planet looking for intern positions, though I have seen retirees in intern positions, but again it is who you know. I have to say if you are looking for a job and the hiring authority/interviewer is a lt. colonel and you were a sarg. and the other applicants were all civilians who do you think is going to get hired?

IMHO the biggest factor is your willingness to move to where the job is. Apply until your printer runs out of ink. You roll the dice enough and sooner or later. You can't just apply for any job you qualify for, it has to be open, hence an intern position is usually open to most anyone.

You would start in some high cost of living area at a low level like a 5 or 7 but the job will be targeted to an 11 or 12.

I have had a Vocational Rehab Rep tell me straight up they are not an employment agency, nothing to see here keep moving.

It takes determination and being single where you can move at will helps unless you live in ny or dc where it is hard for them to fill slots because they don't pay enough to live on. I had a job as a safety specialist in Bayonne, NJ and my landlord actually laughed at me when I told him how much I got paid as a GS-7. You're gonna have to pay some dues unless you know a short cut i don't, but being a vet was irrelevant other than on a social level.

While it may be true that it helps to know someone in the government, it is the same way outside the government. Being a Veteran did not help me get a government job, truthly, it probably hindered it. I got my job under the handicap program. I had to start at the GS-4 level, but now I'm a GS-12. I had a lot more rejections for promotions then promotions, but you just got to work hard and be mobile, I was not.

Papa

I have seent he VRA appointment stipulation on many postings on USA JOBS. However the question is how do you get an appointment letter?

Matt,

I believe that you can get a letter from the VA, but your rating letter might be sufficient. Also, you will need to complete a form 15. I think it is a SF 15.

Papa

Papa,
thank you very much. I applied for a VA job about 7 months ago. It was a great position and nobody applied to it as I was in contact with the recruiter up until the closing date and nobody except me had applied for the 2 positions. Low and behold, 2 GS employees got the job, as I called 2 weeks after the closing. i was pissed. I had everything in order including the sf15. but I guess the GS system is indeed a "good ole boy netwaork." thansk for the info....

Matt

the veterans preference is only a consideration and not a guarantee of hiring. the job can be filled from many different sources as noted in the vacancy announcement.
i am a disabled vet and work for the federal government,my veterans preference has never helped me in any way. if i put in for a job in another area,veterans preference gets me nothing. they always use the addage that the best qualified filled the position. if there was a reduction in force,then i would see veterans preference.
that is my only form of retaliation for a flawed system...watching the non veterans go out the door.

Thank you for all the input, this will be my focus,
what a terrific benefits to find out about!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whelp i am just trying to get my foot int he door. i do not know anybody within the GS system or anybody working for the govt for that matter.

Matt,

What is your educational level? Degree? In what? What did you do in the service? Are you mobile? Do you check out the www.opm.gov web-site? From there you get to the USAJOBs and look for jobs across the country. You will need to set-up an account and post your resume. When you find something that you want to apply for, but do not think you gualify for, apply anyways. Let them tell you that you do not qualify. Good Luck.

Papa

I am proof you do not need to know anybody in the Government employment to get a goverment job.

I concur my military service is irrelevant unless you are being interviewed by a colonel and you were in the Army. Just natural human preference for similar backgrounds. Not a thing to do with any silly pointless point system. That is pure public relations.

My experience and advise is get an undergraduate degree in anything, be willing to move to wherever the job is, apply for anything you remotely qualify for. Back when there was a publication they sold that listed the jobs (still in publication) and overseas plus I guess now the jobs USA. But if you combine those three elements you will get a government job.
1. Education
2. Willing to move
3. Apply
Apply-Apply-Apply

That is the equation, there is no secret recipe. If you think the VA is going to do something for you in this regard you will be waiting a very long time. That is my experience.

I could not have said it better.

Papa

Bigoc
Thank you this has been the most informative post I have seen
Thank you for starting it, and gives me a direction to go

Hey there papa. I just said the same thing you've been saying. I just thought another voice would help convince anyone that believes the VA PR machine.

As I recall you started as a GS-4 and are now a GS-12. That sir is an accomplishment! They don't hand out 12's on the street corner. I guess SES would be next. They have to come from someplace right.

I got disgusted and went and got a job at the post office. They do hire disabled vets. Once you are in they start trying to fire you if your disability hurts their production numbers. I could not get hired beyond a GS-5 until I got the postal job where I got a 50% pay raise right off the bat. I never did so little for so much. They used to give me 2 hours of over time every night. The shift that gave the O.T. would leave, and I would go sit in the break room for about 40 minutes and then go out to the work floor and work in slow motion. My first year I think I worked 10-12 hours every day. Due to union rules I got paid extra for doing night work, and extra for working Sunday. I had it worked out that I got 40 hours of night pay and double Sunday pay. Then my feet started breaking down after a few years. Every big boss had his girlfriend working there plus his wife and kids. Half the people at my post office were related. They got all the best qualified jobs. The vets without connections got the grunt work. If my damn feet had not worn out and I had not torn my rotator cuff I would be there still. The last five years I was in miserable pain.
Then the USPS started to tighten the screws on me. I went out on workers compensation and never went back. They treated me like a dog when I started to break down physically. It was all job related and that really got them mad because I claimed my workers compensation benefits.

John,

You got further then I did at the Post Office. I took a written test and scored very high, and thought that I would get a job. Nope. I got a call from the Post Office telling me that I would need to retake the test. Two women had complained that they could not understand the test monitor. He did have a very heavy Spainish accent, but if you are flapping you gums while he is giving out instructions, he could be speaking Russian. I told them to stick the test where the sun doesn't shine. I understood the guy, but they were going to make over 100 people retest because of these two b...

I actually got my federal job through the Texas Rehab Commission. The points never got me anywhere. I almost forgot, but I did work at the VA hospital in the XRay file room as a colloege work study. I worked about 2 hours a day, and the money sure came in handy with 3 small kids. After one semster I was told not to return as I was out producing 3 other guys working 8 hours per day. I don't know about an SES, but I do know that retirement is right around the corner.

Papa

[quote name='Papa' date='Sep 2 2009, 02:40 PM' post='164034']


SES= Senior Executive Service=You have to be politically connected.

I have gotten every job I have ever tried to get with the exception of the post office. I must be defecient somehow/somewhere but I took the test and It has been so long ago but all I can say is I didn't even get close. I went to one interview as a front desk clerk in some back water joint and never heard back on that. Probably a nepotism deal. now i think about it I was in germany after I got out before I got my Supply Technician GS-7. I applied for a job with the USO (who woulda thunk that), but the woman that interviewed me couldn't get past my East Texas accent, which to her meant thick like ze brick, her supervisor told her in front of me that she was getting that issue confused, but afterwards he told me that he held her responsible so it was her call. Weird how things work out since I was infinetly better off as a GS-7 Supply tech. in Frankfurt 2 weeks latter, this being berfore the draw down. Nothing but good times.

My military service influenced none of the above. I still don't know why I couldn't make the cut at the P.O., but that just wasn't meant to be. It wasn't my life's ambition but I did try some but they had no use for me. I have heard from friends very similar stories to yours John. This one guy retired from the Navy then he was on the night shift for the first year and swore it almost killed him. But as things turned out, he retired from there too, married some lady, got divorced in six months and ended up living in a single wide, on a rented lot. After retiring twice. Go figure that out.

I took a course in memory techniques for the P.O. Also, I was a ten point vet. If you passed the test in Florida and were a 10 point vet you got hired for something. I was hired as a clerk. It was just labor, but I had to learn a memory route to throw letters to the right carrier. I had 1200 memory items to learn in 6 weeks. If you could not pass the test on this memory thing you got fired. The USPS is like the Army on LSD. The place is run by the worst employees who can't do their jobs, so they get promoted to supervisors.

John,

I spent over 30 years in the PO and it was a decent job back in the early 70's. Now it reminds me of the VA, all f----- up.

Bill

"the Army on LSD" you better stop telling your generation! To tell you how thick i am i got some book at the library abut taking the po test and went over it but it sounds like I would have never made it anyway so it saved us all time and achy breaky heart that they didn't let me in the door. i can also say that junk about rain/sleet dark of night may have been true at some point in history, say pony express but they didn't deliver my mail one day and I called and they said well of course they aren't going to deliver your mail in the dark. Yep there's a part 2 to this. Another instance they delivered my VA meds on top of some random mailbox. well 10pm rolls around and i see a spot light hit the house, then comes my name comeout! some thick neck cop wanted to know if these drugs were mine, being blood pressure and thyroid stuff. that was fun for all. they just got tired and put the bag on a box and called it a day. I went to the post master re that incident. Bottom line, go tell your mother, she might care cause I sure don't.

How could that place pay so well and be so horride to work at then get defended for absolutely unacceptable performance. Somebody done been hitting the, what'd they call the clear LSD chips, crystal or something? anyway something is clearly wrong with that joint and we should rename this thread stay away from the PO and if you can use vet points, don't use them there.

Federal jobs seem to require security background checks, since i have been diagnosed with PTSD and am taking paxil will that hinder my chances of getting a federal job? I have not been diagnosed with depression, the bottle says mood/ anxiety.

If it prescription and is working it should not hurt your evaluation.

Sorry guys for just chiming back in a few days ago I posted that I just needed a foot int he door.

Wellt o answer the last question posed to me. i have a 4 year college degree. My military background enlisted for 12 years officer for 8.5. as an Officer i have have been a PL, Battalion S-4 and Battery(Company) Commander. civilian experience = Brokerage Trader, brokerage operations, project management, design process owner. and banking expirence. the sad fact is all the jobs on USA Jobs, pretty much state for somebody looking fro a GS-5 or above job, you havre to have a masters degree. Which is sad as most young kids coming out fo college have an advanced degree.

I did find a job at the local VA and the VSO I work with said he would call the hiring manager and tell them i was the person for the job, but we shall see. the bad thing is I have to fill out the optional application and SF-15 and print and mail a copy of my degree transcript and dd-214, etc....this job says :Applications will be accepted from current and former competitive service Federal employees, and people eligible under special hiring authorities. question how do you become eligible for special hiring conditions?

Matt

I would agree with that but add, there are background checks and then there are back ground checks. It really has a lot to do with you being truthful and also the job you are applying for. You gonna be carrying the football or filing reports. that matters.

In general they get so many requests for checks you will in all likelihood be fine. Paxil, I can't seethat influencing your decision making nor can you be coerced by something like that. Think about it, I got you, your taking paxil for your service to your country. nobody in their right mind would hook you up for that.

Matt, you is a many splenedered thing! Dog gone you have a background that I don't see how in the world you would settle for a GS-5! I don't know the full story but here is what I do know. Most government jobs are open for hire through the competitive service=those that already are in can apply, all others keep on walking, nothing to see here.

special hiring authorities means the job can be filled by the hiring agency, that is not by the usual office of personnel management. this allows the person that interviews you to hire you, rather than only open to the haves and going through the usual beauracracy. that is how I got in.

Post Graduate degrees. It has been so long for me but they used KSA's when I was in which covered that discrepancy, the ability to do a thing, rather than having read about it in a book. I wished i had your background and was writing the knowledge, skills, abilities for that. Now you must be willing to move and apply till you think you are ganna go blind but you will meet the right job/interviewer and get your foot in the door. Once in, shine, then you are on your way.

I did fine with an undergrad degree but that was 20 years ago. But you should be management material, as your background indicates. I never really had that ability but you do and should capatalize on that. don't defeat yourself with negative thinking.

anyway to answer your question special hiring authorities as they used it, means they can hire you, or anybody not in the competetive service. For example dependents overseas were hire under that program/authority. That was the only way I got in when applying in Germany.
Again my military service was meaning less other than on a personal level. It may help you get promoted just because you click with your supervisor, but a real bureaucrat only wants to keep their head down, not be noticed, and nothing is personal, aside from their personal advancement, and our government is replete with that.

If you are thinking they mean special consideration I think you are mistaaken. what you did, by finding someone on the inside, connecting, then get a start like that is a good move. i have no idea what the series is or the track but at least you are in.

Anybody else that has a different take on the special hiring authority please jump in.

If someone is seeing a VA psychologist/psychiatrist may well be of assistance getting a person in.

The secret is to get hired into any job at a VAMC and once you have a job you can apply for the job you want and be on the fast track. Its usually pretty easy to get one of the low paying VA jobs.

I am speaking from just word of mouth cause I have known several who have done this.

Cannoncocker,
Thanks for the expanded comment. I feel a little better about applying for the position. Actuallyt he position is a GS-12 Administrative Officer(AO). so we shall see. They still use the KSA's from what I have seen on the USA JOBS board. Thanks again your post has really peeped me up before a long holiday weekend.



Matt

Matt,

If you look at the USA job descriptions, no one would qualify. Put in for the job as like Cannon said you should not settle for a GS-5 job. Is your degree a business degree? Apply Apply and Apply, and let them tell you that you do not qualify, you do not make that decision.

Chris, if they disqualified Veterans for taking meds for things like PTSD, none of us would work for the government. It is a long process to get a security clearance.

Papa

Papa is again on the mark. If taking anti deppresion medication disaqualified folks from federal employment dc would look like a ghost town. Some clerance checks are just run the license and look for any current warrants and if you had done time. I got one for working at Blue Cross Blue Shield and it was nothing, just a fed. requirement. As a nuclear weapons chief they went deeper and the form was extensive, but they never really followed it to the end. The rest of my fed jobs just wanted to know if I was currently wanted by the fuzz. On the other hand my brother, in Germany worked for the Frankfurt Milcom and he put down that he had never done time. During the pot witch hunts of 1970 vintage, That was not quite true. But still time, so out the door he went.

Moral: tell the truth because they can look on a computer in seconds to see the obvious. They can't tell what you did in the basement with a few buddies. Still it depends what the clearance is for. My advise, tell the truth and apply. If you have a problem it is better to know now than have to pack your bags later. My brother now makes 75,000 a year working from home, With a home office allowance, so their ......

Alright,
so i applied for a VA job, overnighted my stuff to the hr person and had my VSO make a call to them. said he did(well that can not be verified) hopefully something comes of it. I can only pray. The closing date was yesterday and they received my package that mornng. Seems the only jobs i apply for are usually hired from within. Hopefully the call from my vso who said he calle din a favor comes thru.

Matt

Good Luck Matt

Good Luck Matt, but please do not limit your opportunities to this one job. Do you have your resume set up in the USA job site and the Army has their own. Actually, in the USA job site you can set up a job alert that will send you jobs that you may qualify for.

Papa

Papa is again exactly right!. Don't let all your hopes ride on one job. It is clear you have alot invested in this and god know if you don't deserve this one who does, and I'd pretty much say something like that if it gets to an interview. but the game is play by quantity. that may not be reasonable, make sense, etc. but that is just how it is. I got a job in Germany with the govvernment and I was behind dependents, so believe when i tell you I know what you are feeling.

You can win this battle, hopefully this particular one, but somewhere, somehow it will be your turn. the combination of things will come together and bang you are in. we already told you the formula to win. the rest is on you. You may not like that formula but whe don't make the rules!

Everybody is rooting for a guy like you, well qualified, wants to work....

Good luck on this one.

PS It is like going to Vegas and say "I am going to get rich" but i will only roll the dice one time and if that doesn't do it I will just go home and never try agsin.