Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Agent Orange


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
11 replies to this topic

#1 keepugessn

keepugessn

    E-3 Seaman

  • Seaman
  • PipPipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:33 PM

Hi all,

Does anyone know if they consider Cirrosis a disease caused by Agent Orange? I have read articles that say
it is the cause and as a secondary the Dupretryns contracture is from cirrosis. I possibly have both, definately
the contracture but almost positive about the cirrosis. Have had since 1971/1972 after Vietnam where we ate drank and slept in the ao stuff. I was a door gunner and it covered us because we flew behind, under, around planes spreading the stuff. I have serious lung issues that are cronic but how do you tie the two together?

Thanks Lance

#2 Ron II

Ron II

    E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer

  • Senior Chief Petty Officer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 888 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:37 PM

Hi all,

Does anyone know if they consider Cirrosis a disease caused by Agent Orange? I have read articles that say
it is the cause and as a secondary the Dupretryns contracture is from cirrosis. I possibly have both, definately
the contracture but almost positive about the cirrosis. Have had since 1971/1972 after Vietnam where we ate drank and slept in the ao stuff. I was a door gunner and it covered us because we flew behind, under, around planes spreading the stuff. I have serious lung issues that are cronic but how do you tie the two together?

Thanks Lance


Hi Lance,

The following might be of help to you:


Current Conditions Considered by VA Presumptive to AO Exposure:

These are the diseases which VA currently presumes resulted from exposure to herbicides like Agent Orange. The law requires that some of these diseases be at least 10% disabling under VA's rating regulations within a deadline that began to run the day you left Vietnam. If there is a deadline, it is listed in parentheses after the name of the disease.

If you would like any additional information regarding the specific medical conditions listed below, please see the Agent Orange Briefing Fact Sheets Web Page .

Veterans Exposed to Herbicides
(Agent Orange) Presumptive service connection is available to veterans who served in Vietnam and parts of Korea along the DMZ. The presumptive diseases are as follows:

Types of Cancer with no time requirements for manifestation

Cancer of the bronchus
Cancer of the larynx
Lung Cancer
Prostate cancer
Cancer of the trachea
Hodgkin’s disease
Multiple myeloma
Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia

Types of Soft Tissue Sarcoma with no time
requirements for manifestation

Adult Fibrosarcoma
Alveolar Soft Part Sarcoma
Angiosarcoma
Clear Cell Sarcoma of Aponeuroses
Clear Cell Sarcoma of Tendons and
Aponeuroses
Congenital Fibrosarcoma
Dermatofibrosarcoma Protuberans
Ectomesenchymoma
Epithelioid Malignant Leiomyosarcoma
Epithelioid and Glandular Malignant
Schwannomas
Epithelioid Sarcoma
Extraskeletal Ewing’s Sarcoma
Hemangiosarcoma
Infantile Fibrosarcoma
Leiomyosarcoma
Liposarcoma
Lymphangiosarcoma
Malignant Fibrous Histiocytoma
Malignant Giant Cell Tumor of the
Tendon Sheath
Malignant Glandular Schwannoma
Malignant Glomus Tumor
Malignant Hemangiopericytoma
Malignant Mesenchymoma
Malignant Ganglioneuroma
Malignant Granular Cell Tumor
Malignant Leiomyoblastoma
Malignant Synovioma
Malignant Schwannoma with Rhabdomyoblastic Differentiation
Proliferating (systemic)
Angiendotheliomatosis
Rhabdomyosarcoma
Synovial Sarcoma

Diseases other than Cancer with various time requirements

Type 2 Diabetes (Also known as Diabetes Mellitus)
Periperal neuropathy (acute or subacute)
Chloracne
Porphyria Cutanea Tarda

Disabilities in Children of Vietnam Veterans

Spina Bifida
Certain Birth Defects in Children of VN Veterans

What if I served in Vietnam and Have a Disease Not on VA'S List?

If you served in Vietnam and believe that you have a disease caused by herbicide exposure, but that disease is not on VA'S list of diseases associated with herbicides like Agent Orange, you may still apply for service-connection. Such a veteran needs to establish entitlement to service connection on a "direct" (rather than "presumptive") basis. In these cases, VA requires:

1) competent medical evidence of a current disability;
2) competent evidence of exposure to a herbicide in Vietnam; and
3) competent medical evidence of a nexus (casual relationship) between the herbicide exposure and the current disability.

For more Q/A about Agent Orange access:
http://www.vba.va.go...icide/AOno3.htm


Good luck,

Ron


Edited by Manitou Sprgs, 07 February 2008 - 05:16 PM.


#3 keepugessn

keepugessn

    E-3 Seaman

  • Seaman
  • PipPipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:52 PM

Thanks for the reply Ron I really appreciate it.

From what I read if its not on the list, I need a doctor to show I have an issue with these two things and
then prove I was saturated with this stuff, and then that the issues I do have are directly related
to Agent Orange? Is that right? I am having trouble with how to put all this together but this site as been
truly a godsend. Some of us may not post everyday or respond all the time but we are here and reading every word you all have to say and it helps alot.

Lance

#4 john999

john999

    HadIt.com Elder

  • HadIt.com Elder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21847 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:57 PM

What I know is that if your disease is not on the presumtive list you are in for a fight to get it service connected. It is not impossible. Do you have anything in your service medical records about liver problems? How about Hep C? There have been claims that the guns they used to give us our shots were contaminated and spread Hep C. Have you been tested for Hep C? If you have not been a heavy drinker or abuser of IV drugs where did the liver problems start? If you have any evidence that these problems started within one year of discharge you may have a claim as a presumptive disease. This is not an average claim and will take research. One of the expert lawyers who do COVA cases might know something.

#5 Ron II

Ron II

    E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer

  • Senior Chief Petty Officer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 888 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:59 PM

Thanks for the reply Ron I really appreciate it.

From what I read if its not on the list, I need a doctor to show I have an issue with these two things and
then prove I was saturated with this stuff, and then that the issues I do have are directly related
to Agent Orange? Is that right? I am having trouble with how to put all this together but this site as been
truly a godsend. Some of us may not post everyday or respond all the time but we are here and reading every word you all have to say and it helps alot.

Lance


Lance,

Although I have diabetes II, presumptively caused by Agent Orange, I'm really not an expert on the subject. However, many on Hadit are, particularly Berta. Many of these folks visit early in the morning or late at night. In the meantime, you might visit:
http://www.vietnow.c...varet/agent.htm for more info on AO.

Ron

#6 keepugessn

keepugessn

    E-3 Seaman

  • Seaman
  • PipPipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 05:04 PM

Well for the most part I have contractures in my hands that started curling up within the year after I left Vietnam. It is caused from Cirrosis of the liver and I did not drink or do drugs at that time nor do I do them now
maybe an occasional beer but thats it. I have medical records going back a long time from reg doc stating the contractures and I am not sure of the hep c don't have any knowledge of having that yet??? lol thanks :rolleyes:
With the lung issues and this I thought for sure it was from AO though.

#7 Pete53

Pete53

    Moderator/HadIt.com Elder

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21601 posts

Posted 07 February 2008 - 07:18 PM

Keep:

You need a boiler plated Medical Opinion that can link your Cirrosis to your service and Agent Orange. It looks like you have a good claim to me but its just me thinking so. The fact that you did not frink nor do now should help your claim

By the way the VA goons pretty much think every Veteran is or was a drinker and drugs.


#8 Berta

Berta

    HadIt.com Elder/SVR Radio Panelist

  • SVR
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28061 posts

Posted 08 February 2008 - 06:10 AM

"With the lung issues and this I thought for sure it was from AO though"

Lung cancer is a presumptive AO disability-
although the VA denied a widow recently whose husband ,incountry Vietnam vet with lung cancer contributing to death, did not have a soft tissue sarcoma form of lung cancer.

She is in for a long fight with the VA.

The posts here are correct-
only an independent medical opinion from an Environmental expert that fully can associate your lung disease as directly due to AO would possibly-in the long run-service connect you for AO disability.
There have been claims like that but very very few succeed.

Cirrosis has no medical association with Agent Orange.

#9 keepugessn

keepugessn

    E-3 Seaman

  • Seaman
  • PipPipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 08 February 2008 - 04:04 PM

Berta,

Thanks for the reply. I realize its not recognized by the VA yet every site I look up
concerning AO and Cirrosis/Cancer of the liver links these two together. I cannot believe how many posts I read
from Vets who had one or the other or both who never drank, or did drugs that have this problem. They are crying out, no screaming out for help and the peoples report on the Dioxin home page has this and tons more info stating the effects of Dioxin on the human body. I just took a small piece from it to show what I am finding. How does one go about getting the VA to recognize Cirrosis as a disease with secondary of Dupuytren Contracture which is caused by Cirrosis of the liver and I suppose that if you don't drink you have to explain the Cirrosis. I am sure there are many, many more issues not listed on the list for AO conditions that are directly caused by Dioxin.

Dioxin/AO from the Dioxin homepage/effects of Dioxin on the human body.One would expect that, after exposure to high doses of dioxin, more of the toxin would accumulate in fatty tissues where it dissolves best. Instead, a greater proportion of it ends up in the liver (Abraham, 1988). Apparently, the liver, when faced with high concentrations of this poorly soluble compound, makes more of the protein cytochrome P-450 1A2 (CYP1A2) to which dioxin binds (Olson, 1994; Diliberto, 1997; IARC, 1997). This protein is quite abundant in the liver, and it becomes more so in the presence of dioxin and related compounds (Voorman, 1987, 1989; Poland, 1989; 1989a). It does not bind to dioxin as tightly as does the Ah receptor described below, but, because of its abundance, it is the major protein to which dioxin binds.

I want to help...please, please what can I do to help all these other guys in the same condition as myself and others that are having such a hard time getting these things listed. I have the time where do I start?

#10 Berta

Berta

    HadIt.com Elder/SVR Radio Panelist

  • SVR
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28061 posts

Posted 09 February 2008 - 06:35 AM

I certainly agree with you-that AO has caused many other conditions that are not on the AO list yet-

I agree too with the info you found-
dioxin is a bioaccumulative persistent organic pollutant with a long shelf life in some animals (probaby humans too) and certainly in soil etc-(such as the HIGH rates that were found last spring in Danang-presently under a clean up there-

"I want to help...please, please what can I do to help all these other guys in the same condition as myself and others that are having such a hard time getting these things listed. I have the time where do I start?"

You could put that message on all the disabled vet forums,with contact info, and then present any info you receive from vets- along with some studies such as the one you quoted-to your Congressman/woman or State senators and ask them to amend the AO regs-
that all will take a lot of work----it will also take bonafide medical evidence of the nexus-cirrosis isnt in the Ranch Hand study.
and you could contact NVLSP about this-NVLSP however is very busy in the Haas matter-

If you are willing to take the time and expense you could start interest in adding more disabilities to the AO list-

I commend your willingness to help others with this disability but-if you have followed the AO situation since 1990- as I have- you can see how difficult it has been not only for the AO disability list to grown (it HAS grown however) only 2 conditions were on it when I started studying this issue)
but the VA still fails to recognize how many veterans were actually exposed to AO in the Pacific, Thailand, Guam, Cambodia, Okinawa-and probaby far more than those who VA says were exposed in Korea.

Beverly Nehmer, a widow, is why we have the Nehmer AO decision- with the relentless legal assistance of NVLSP who fought for her and ALL Vietnam vets exposed to AO-and this is a class action lawsuit decision.

If you can find scientific and medical evidence that connects cirrosis to AO with no other known medical etiology- and if you can find a lawyer to represent this group of veterans affected-as a class-(or get the backing of Congressmen/women etc) you could possibly change the regs.

I was told in 1995 that what I was attempting to do was impossible by lawyers and some vet reps-(long story on my claim- I already told it here)
I don't believe anything is impossible.
I proved many reps and lawyers to be wrong (not to mention the VA itself)
It was a LOT of work for 3 years.

If you are willing to put in the time and some money (mailing fees can get quite high)you can begin to attempt to alter the AO regs-Independent medical opinions for a class action as well as personal claims are quite costly too-I have spent $5,750 on IMos so far for a present claim I have that -in my opinion-which needed no IMOs as the clinical record and VA's admission of malpractice speaks for itself-

Getting the regs changed is one hard road to take-
and as I mentioned before-
if you get an IMO from an environmentalist with a PHD-you have a good chance to possibly succeed with your AO claim.
As long as you can rule out heavy drinking etc-in your case- any other etiology but for AO- with this type of opinion-you could possibly succeed in your claim.

That same environmental specialist (they have to be good-the VA has one too to go against claims like this-but he actually supported one already-in a BVA decision-not cirrosis but another condition not on the AO list)
could prepare IMos for other vets with the same disability -for a fee and they too could possibly succeed with their claims.
-----

Cirrosis of liver due to alcoholism:

In the Federal Circuit court decision re: Allen V. Principi-
the court held that the veteran's alcoholism was directly caused by his service connected PTSD.
NVLSP makes the point that often it is very important to have the VA rate the alcoholism is secondary to PTSD.
There is no comp for alcoholism -it is rated as part of the PTSD-
unless it causes cirrosis -

a veteran with cirrosis due to alcoholism who can prove that their service connected PTSD was the cause of their alcoholism can have the cirrosis service connected and rated as hysical disability as secondary to their SC PTSD.

NVLSP also stresses that fact that a veteran's survivors could ultimately obtain DIC and other service connected death benefits if the veteran had cirrosis that caused or contributed to his or her death -that was directly attributable to the veteran's SC PTSD.

Allen V. Principi- (more info here available under the search feature)

Edited by Berta, 09 February 2008 - 06:52 AM.


#11 Ron II

Ron II

    E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer

  • Senior Chief Petty Officer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 888 posts

Posted 09 February 2008 - 05:54 PM

Hello keepugessn,

I don't think anyone could provide a better answer and guide to future actions than Berta's comments in the preceding post.

Good luck,
Ron

#12 keepugessn

keepugessn

    E-3 Seaman

  • Seaman
  • PipPipPip
  • 14 posts

Posted 10 February 2008 - 06:08 PM

Berta,

I thank you so much for the detailed information you have provided. My wife's ex worked for the county planning dept/environmental health dept., and he has contacts that we might be able to get somewhere with. Along with several attorneys in our family and with the contacts they have, we are going to look into this. You sure know your stuff and I hope if I have further questions about this I can ask you. Have a awesome day Berta. Lance and Donna