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Form 21-4192


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#1 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:56 PM

I just got a standard packet in the mail for my IU claim, and a request for evidence for two other things I had put in a claim for that are secondaries.

This packet had copies of 6 of these forms (21-4192). "Request for employment information in connection with disability benefits."

Is it up to the veteran to send these out to their former employers or is this some kind of error, and I wasn't suppoto get these. It looks to me like it is a form for the employer/VA to fill out.

Been on SSD since jan 08, and they have all that info.

I'm confuzzled.

#2 jbasser

 
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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:00 PM

It would be in your best interest to take them to your former employers and get them filled out.
VA will not approve IU without these forms.

J

Edited by jbasser, 20 November 2009 - 09:36 PM.


#3 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:09 PM

Some of my former employers are no where to be found. (Bankrupt/moved) That's how the oilfield is, but my proof of employment is documented via SSD....I will have to do it throught the mail for most (multi-states/areas), and is all 6 of these required or back to a certain time frame?

#4 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:20 PM

I would like to have copies of those that I am able to get, so maybe this is a good thing that they require the vet to do the leg work. Don't mind that at all if it means I have proof to shove down their throat later when they screw it up somehow. B)

#5 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 20 November 2009 - 10:03 PM

Oh man, I hope my last employer isn't going to be my trial and jury. It's a big trucking company that was just as screwed up as the VA, and just by sending this into HR to get completed wouldn't do me justice. They wouldn't know some of the details of the struggles I had doing that kind of work. Most of the time I just suffered through it just like when in the service, but had to refuse loads. Worked there 6 months.

Do I need to get buddy letters similar to the ones for stressors? LOL, Just kiddin'.

I got a letter from them saying that the reason for my not wanting to work there anymore was from my not liking that kind of work when I quit in july of 07.

Maybe I'm just stressing over details with this, but I don't want to give the VA any breathing room here.

Ya Larry each page is for one employer, and they sent me six pages.

Edited by Ryan, 20 November 2009 - 10:05 PM.


#6 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:45 AM

Okay.
I'm going to tell you this, then I am going to have to back out of this conversation:
The VA cross-checks with the Social Security Administration. What data the SSA has, the VA has.
Beware what you tell the VA concerning your past employment.
'nuff said?


Yes I know this and am hoping that whoever is handling my claim will see it too. I've not lied to them about ANYTHING, but am learning that if whoever is handling this doesn't understand something they make presumtions that there is deception when there is NOT. I called them on this when dealing with the regional in wyoming. I flat out said If u have something from me that ties me directly into commiting fraud then why am I not in jail yet. Needless to say, I'm not in jail.

My anxiety has given me the curse of not taking anything lightly, and have to have every concieveable angle covered. If I see a slight angle that can be blown out of context or proportion...I address it with a large degree of obsession to make sure it's taken care of.

I appreciate ur efforts to help others here, and u have help me personally in this whole process (via reading ur other posts), but please do not mistake my anxiety for deception.

I worked jobs that did not require me to be around people much, and as a result, I can see there being less than accurate data to go off in these forms that are designed to make snap judgements. I got physically ill from the anxiety and was in the ER shortly before quitting my last job at this trucking company (july 07), and most of the time in my other line of work I used all PTO time, and would just come in to do the bare essentials and take off the rest of the day because of anxiety. I either separated myself or I would get nasty over the most trivial things if I wasn't able to get away from what was stimulating it. People that I were around were scared to ask me any questions about anything because I was constantly pissed off at life in general. I would shut off my cell phone and hide. Scheduled time off I would drink myself into oblivion, and even sometimes when I was supposto be at work. I was good at hiding it. This was not documented in the form of missing days as a result of my disablity. That's what I'm wondering about, even though there were incidents that would be favorable to my claim, but who the hell is gonna remember them besides me. Some pencil pushing geek in HR that was working somewhere else at the time isn't gonna. See my point? Perhaps I should submit a statement explaining it like I did here.

Found out 5 years worth of employers is what they want. 3 are in CA, 1 in Wyoming, and 2 is here in Co. (6 forms sent/6 employers in five years. One filed bankrupcy, and is no longer in business.)

Edited by Ryan, 21 November 2009 - 10:56 AM.


#7 Berta

 
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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:58 AM

I think you need to send these out yourself-and I also think Larry is right-


Do you get SSA disability for exactly the same conditions you are claiming TDIU for?

If so have they sent you authorization form to sign for them to obtain the SSA records?

Employers are often afraid of the ADA laws and dont want to be sued.

Sometimes it helps with personal contact to let them know why you need the form and that what they state is only for VA purposes.

With the SSA award already -then the employer should understand that you are unable to work per SSA and do not want this info on the form for any ADA case.

Also you could obtain your personnel records.Doing that was instrumental to me in proving my husband's claims after he died as well as wrongful death claims.

And my recent AO death award claim too.

VA never mentioned his TDIU form or contacted any of his employers. He only had 2 after we moved to NY and one of his employers was the VA.

As long as an employer knows why they are getting these forms from VA, I would think they would be willing to help provide VA with the info they ask for.

#8 halos2

 
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Posted 21 November 2009 - 11:12 AM

OK So you quit your last job in Jul 07, from the trucking firm, and you were granted SSD in Jan 08, why are you worried about filling out form 21-4192? Is it because you quit your last job? Or your SSD is different from your VA TDIU? If SSD deemed you TD, it doesn't matter the reason for their determination, but I know you know VA is only related to VA, so why worry?
Maybe I am missing something here.
Maybe I am not the only hadit members who doesn't understand your reasoning for the ?apprehension??

Sorry I typed this out 45 minutes ago after I read LarryJ's post and answered the phone and saw where I didn't send it and send and then saw where you responded and berta too...oh well...

Edited by halos2, 21 November 2009 - 11:18 AM.


#9 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 21 November 2009 - 11:16 AM

I think you need to send these out yourself-and I also think Larry is right-


Do you get SSA disability for exactly the same conditions you are claiming TDIU for?
Yes, as far as I know, but SSA never sent me anything specifically saying that even in the award letter back in the spring of 08. The last C&P examiner said they have it, but I prolly should nail that down for sure.

If so have they sent you authorization form to sign for them to obtain the SSA records? I don't remember one specifically, but I may have signed one with all the ther stuff, and just don't remember. Will find out.

Employers are often afraid of the ADA laws and dont want to be sued. What does ADA stand for?

Sometimes it helps with personal contact to let them know why you need the form and that what they state is only for VA purposes. Good to know.

With the SSA award already -then the employer should understand that you are unable to work per SSA and do not want this info on the form for any ADA case. Should I tell the employers that I am on SSD prior to asking them to fill out the form?

Also you could obtain your personnel records.Doing that was instrumental to me in proving my husband's claims after he died as well as wrongful death claims. Definately worth a try.


Edited by Ryan, 21 November 2009 - 11:16 AM.


#10 Guest_Ryan_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 21 November 2009 - 11:41 AM

Maybe I am missing something here.
Maybe I am not the only hadit members who doesn't understand your reasoning for the ?apprehension??

Sorry I typed this out 45 minutes ago after I read LarryJ's post and answered the phone and saw where I didn't send it and send and then saw where you responded and berta too...oh well...

From my earlier post:
I worked jobs that did not require me to be around people much, and as a result, I can see there being less than accurate data to go off in these forms that are designed to make snap judgements. I got physically ill from the anxiety and was in the ER shortly before quitting my last job at this trucking company (july 07), and most of the time in my other line of work I used all PTO time, and would just come in to do the bare essentials and take off the rest of the day because of anxiety. I either separated myself or I would get nasty over the most trivial things if I wasn't able to get away from what was stimulating it. People that I were around were scared to ask me any questions about anything because I was constantly pissed off at life in general. I would shut off my cell phone and hide. Scheduled time off I would drink myself into oblivion, and even sometimes when I was supposto be at work. I was good at hiding it. This was not documented in the form of missing days as a result of my disablity. That's what I'm wondering about, even though there were incidents that would be favorable to my claim, but who the hell is gonna remember them besides me. Some pencil pushing geek in HR that was working somewhere else at the time isn't gonna. See my point? Perhaps I should submit a statement explaining it like I did here.

My apprehension comes from my experience of having one piece of info that may not make sense at face value being translated via a snap judgement into something completely inaccurate. Throw cynisim in there, and now we have a false incinuation of deception.

Am I the only one who experiences this????????????


#11 Berta

 
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:10 AM

"I got physically ill from the anxiety and was in the ER shortly before quitting my last job at this trucking company (july 07"

"OK So you quit your last job in Jul 07, from the trucking firm, and you were granted SSD in Jan 08, why are you worried about filling out form 21-4192? Is it because you quit your last job? Or your SSD is different from your VA TDIU? If SSD deemed you TD, it doesn't matter the reason for their determination, but I know you know VA is only related to VA, so why worry?"

halos made a good point-

what is the SSDI for and are these the conditions you claim for TDIU?

Is the VA fully aware you get SSA? Did they send you authorization form yet to obtain the SSA records?