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Proof Of Stressor


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10 replies to this topic

#1 MikeS

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:12 AM

Hi all:

I met a fellow vet at the va who was denied his first claim because their was no proff of a stressor.

He said the stressor was civilian casualties in viet nam.

He said that he was discharged honorably "for the convenience of the government" because his behavior had changed drastically after his return to his stateside base.

He also said that stomache pains and sleeplessness were documented after his return from nam.

What would be a good way for him to continue to fight his claim even though there is no record of those civilian deaths that he thinks about every day and dreams about almost every night.

Please help. This veteran is on the verge of accepting the va's denial.

Thanks,

Mike S.

#2 Guest_DON20906_*GuestMember

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:33 AM

What was his MOS?

Hi all:

I met a fellow vet at the va who was denied his first claim because their was no proff of a stressor.

He said the stressor was civilian casualties in viet nam.

He said that he was discharged honorably "for the convenience of the government" because his behavior had changed drastically after his return to his stateside base.

He also said that stomache pains and sleeplessness were documented after his return from nam.

What would be a good way for him to continue to fight his claim even though there is no record of those civilian deaths that he thinks about every day and dreams about almost every night.

Please help. This veteran is on the verge of accepting the va's denial.

Thanks,

Mike S.



#3 Berta

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 07:07 AM

Was he in support of the ops that caused the civilian casualties?

Did he witness any American casualties-or the operation that caused what he saw?

Was this an event that caused accidental deaths of civilians?There could perhaps be a newspaper article somewhere-

If he tries to find his unit on the web perhaps he could get a buddy statement-

Does he remember the name of the town or vill where this occurred?

I worked at a Vet Center as a volunteer (PTSD Combat Rap Group)and have talked to many manyNam vets over the last 20 years-

I think there is much more to his stressor situation than he wants to reveal.

He should certainly file a claim, not only for PTSD but also for the other conditions.
The drastic change in his behavior should be found in his SMRs,which he should get too-

Also on the SF 180 I think he should ask for his service personnel records too and anything (like Article 15s, Capt Mass stuff) that he might have gotten whch would show inservice trauma.

#4 Pete53

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 09:02 AM

I would bet that his best bet is to find someone who witnessed the event. Its my opinion that unless the soldier falls into the category of someone that VA will accept their testimony its a lot easier to pursue a secondary claim such as Depression as almost everyone who has PTSD has Depression or Panic Disorder also.

#5 Wings

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:25 AM

I would bet that his best bet is to find someone who witnessed the event. Its my opinion that unless the soldier falls into the category of someone that VA will accept their testimony its a lot easier to pursue a secondary claim such as Depression as almost everyone who has PTSD has Depression or Panic Disorder also.


I agree with Pete.

If symptoms were noted in SMR as "stomach pains and sleeplessness", and the veteran can show being treated over the years for psychosomatic symptomology, he could show a "disease or injury [mental disorder] resulting in disability was incurred coincident with service in the Armed Forces, or if preexisting such service, was aggravated therein".

At some point in time, he would need to have the disease or injury properly/medically diagnosed. Proving stressor for PTSD under these circumstances might be more difficult (but do-able), than showing evidence of another or additional mental disorder. BTW, This could be accomplished through an independent medical examination!

Specifically, C.F.R. Sec. 3.303(b) Chronicity and continuity. With chronic disease shown as such in service ... so as to permit a finding of service connection, subsequent manifestations of the same chronic disease at any later date, however remote, are service connected, unless clearly attributable to intercurrent causes. ... When the [chronic] disease identity is established (leprosy, tuberculosis, multiple sclerosis, etc.), there is no requirement of evidentiary showing of continuity. Continuity of symptomatology is required only where the condition noted during service (or in the presumptive period) is not, in fact, shown to be chronic or where the diagnosis of chronicity may be legitimately questioned. When the fact of chronicity in service is not adequately supported, then a showing of continuity after discharge is required to support the claim.

My 2 cents! ~Wings

#6 john999

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:18 PM

Wings

I would agree with you and Pete on this 100%. If the vet has SMR's with depression symptoms they that would be much easier than a PTSD claim years later with having to prove a stressor. Unless the soldier was in combat and has proof via a combat badge or medal those PTSD claims are not easy. You know that when you claim PTSD the VA is ready for you. When I went for my depression C&P the shrink assumed PTSD and I had to straighten him out on that right away. I did not need to prove something that was already in my records.

#7 MikeS

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:55 PM

Hi all:

The veteran was in the air force but was sent into the field at An Loc during the Easter Offensive of 1972.

He said that he witnessed a surprise attack on three female (vc ???) by the army sgt who was interrogating them.

This sgt shot and killed all three females.

Neither he or I can find anything on the record.

All we can find is in-service behavior and physical problems and article 15 and a shrink diagnosis of "social disorder" and "personality disorder". All were documented in nam and 9 months later at a stateside air base.

VA docs here say he has ptsd and major depressive disorder stemming from nam.

That's all I know for know.

Does this further info make any sense for an NOD???

Thanks,

Mike S.

#8 john999

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:21 PM

The story sounds fishy to me. Why would they need to send an airman into the field? He would be more of a burden than a help. He might have stayed back at some base and been on guard duty, but to send him into the field like a grunt woud have put all those around him in danger. The Easter offensive was stopped by Air Power and massive bombing. It was a NVA offensive not a VC thing like Tet 1968.

#9 Berta

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:31 PM

The Easter Offensive at An loc was very rough-

I dont work for amazon- but I think that if this vet is willing to take the time he should go to:



http://www.amazon.co...glance&n=283155

The book (he can read some of it online) only cost 14-1500 dollars and they have used copies to0-
the author wonders about the fate of some villagers-at least that part popped up in Google-

and:

http://www.historyne...tide-offensive/




"In the official history of the Air Force airlift mission in Southeast Asia, author Ray Bowers describes the battle for An Loc during the 1972 Eastertide (or Easter) Offensive as "the most trying times of the war for Air Force C-130 crews." Historian Bowers' statement is well founded, because it was at An Loc that a relative handful of U.S. Air Force airlifters suddenly found themselves the sole salvation of the defenders of a besieged South Vietnamese city"

If he can pinpoint his unit at the same time on these direct ops or even if he did extractions, I would think
he has more than enough to prove stressors.

What he described certainly could have happened in Nam- it did happen- but he will have to dig a little to see if there is anything to corroborate it. Warfare is supernatural and ordinary people react in extraordinary ways -that makes sense at the time, yet has residual factors, once a soldier feels safe again.


This might help too- an extraordinary account by Tran Van Nhut-
http://www.ocregiste...icle_499094.php

Van Nhut was an ARVN and this could be the type of detailed accounts he needs to support what he saw-

I found plenty more about civilian casualties in An Loc Eastertide Offensive on the net-
such as : http://www.airpower....-feb/parks.html

He should also try to get his unit's web site for any buddy statements.

He might want to try Military.com for their Buddy Looking For area.

Edited by Berta, 22 June 2006 - 02:32 PM.


#10 MikeS

 
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:44 PM

Hi all:

The veteran was an intelligence operations spec.

He was sent into the field for a short time to witness field interrogations because that was the best intell at the time.

The murder of civilian females was not part of the training.

I'm going to try to find some collaborating info for him.

I found a va training video where the va uses other facts to corroborate a stressor without the stressor actually being on paper.

Going back 34 years is gonna be real fun.

The veteran has no computer and he has no computer skills.

I'll do what I can with your help.

Thanks!

Mike S.

#11 Berta

 
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 07:41 AM

Mike- I suddenly see a red flag there-for two personal reasons-

Have you seen this vet's DD 214?

Most (not all) USAF Intelligence Specs worked in Saigon in the Defense Attache.

The fact that he was an 'observer' in the field for a 'short time' during the Easter Offensive does not make sense to me at all - but this should be found in his USAF personnel file.

He was probably in the 7th Air Force- under General Lavelle and could have been part of communication ops.

Ask him for his DD 214 and who General Lavelle is-the situation Lavelle was in could support his claim.

I have a ROE regarding claimants-
if I find them links and tell them how to get their SMRs etc-
and they are unwilling to try to use a PC (the internet is user friendly for anyone) or they could even pay a high school kid a few bucks to search and download stuff for them-
if I find I am spending more time then they are in trying to support a stressor-
there is a chance that there might not be a stressor.

As an observer in the field, this would have generated a report of intelligence that went to a CO- he could attempt to find that report (Vietnam is all declassified now) or the CO who received the report.That would at least put him at the scene.

Not saying this is the case here but something does seem odd.John is right-

I am a civilian but I go to a war school-(Battlefield Command etc)
The Easter Offensive (nguyen Hue) was a horrific period of time in An Loc and other areas of Vietnam in 1972-
I sure would not want an intell observer from Saigon in the field, that I would have to provide cover for, during most of an offensive like this was-you mentioned "training"-today-
what training occurs during an offensive?
Think about it-what units did he observe? and Why?



I have the complete history of the Easter Offensive-
Many many civilians died.
Since this vet cannot use a PC, he surely can get to a library or buy some books from Amazon-the link I suggested is great and I am buying that book myself-there are books that could possible support his claim.

Edited by Berta, 23 June 2006 - 08:02 AM.